guyslikeus EP04: an ode to boys' weekend and why they matter

Marc Winter (00:13) Hello, welcome to Guys Like Us, the podcast about existential questions and champagne problems. How are you? Paul Fattinger (00:21) I am very good, very good. How are you Mark? Yeah. Marc Winter (00:24) Yeah? Good, good, good. ⁓ Paul, where are your feet touching the ground today? Paul Fattinger (00:32) In Vienna, at home actually. Marc Winter (00:33) yeah? ⁓ nice, okay. ⁓ Paul Fattinger (00:36) That's nice, been nice to be back. Marc Winter (00:37) I'm recording this podcast in the wine cellar of my building. So you've been in my building, you know, for the listeners, the hotel basically, but for listeners who are listening, I live in a giant, basically a giant hotel somewhere in the Lower East Side of Manhattan. And to attract people to live here, the developers created a like little wine cellar here, which are supposed to store your bottles for a fee. Paul Fattinger (00:47) The hotel. Marc Winter (01:06) Funny enough, no one stores their bottles here. mostly use it. Paul Fattinger (01:09) I was about to say, it looks pretty empty. I think we've been to every like, every funny, you know, I remember we got a bit high on that, on the tree house, right? And then we walked into every piece of the building, remember? We to the bowling alley and to the basketball court, but we never actually been to the wine cellar. Marc Winter (01:26) That's I do. Yeah, because it's stupid. but you know, you know who actually, comes here. So there's this group actually, and it's the stupidest name ever. I'm so glad to out them on this podcast. They're called the wine sultans and it's run by a dentist. And I can show you this is his wine collection over here. It's just, you know, some decent bottles of Madeira and, California Napa Napa shit and stuff like this, but Paul Fattinger (01:36) You Hmm. Marc Winter (02:03) They, every month they come together, they fill this room, they all, everyone brings bottles that get trashed, and then they post the videos in this giant building chat. It's like they're supposed to be the coolest. It's like it's the most embarrassing thing you've ever seen in your life. look, I know some of these people, you you see them on Monday, as they open up the elevator and I was like, my God. Paul Fattinger (02:28) But also why is that your peer group? Why? No, not you! ⁓ If you did that, why would you post it into the Billings WhatsApp group? Look, I am the only one using that stupid seller, what's the message? Marc Winter (02:31) I'm not part of it, they just happen to be in the building. because they... Yeah, well, think that this is the message is this is the coolest group in the building. Don't you want to be part of the party? know? And yeah, so like. Paul Fattinger (02:54) It's a bit like the high school tables, like who sits at what table? At what table do you sit? Marc Winter (02:56) Yeah, totally. I mean, that's another podcast ⁓ of the segmentation of my building. the reality distortion field of those of the wine sultans here thinking that they're cool posting themselves drinking and include. Paul Fattinger (03:04) The family, daddies... Okay, okay. That's true. Did you at least see the bottle in them now or what are you drinking? Marc Winter (03:25) ⁓ yeah, great question. That's a good thing. So unfortunately, man, I'm doing being sponsored today by a non alcoholic beer called the athletic all day IPA or run wild IPA, which is by the way, the best non alcoholic beer on the market. ⁓ Only because I'm running to my parents. Yeah. Excellent. What about you? What are you drinking? Paul Fattinger (03:43) Really? am sponsored today by Landgut Schöne Erde. It's a very nice Grüne Wettlinie from Kamptal, which is a region north of Vienna. And the winery is run by a good friend of mine who stepped out of his day job as a politician actually. He ran a political party in Vienna for 10 years and now he is a winemaker. And he does fantastic wine. So Landgut Schöne Erde for everyone who is listening from Austria, Germany or like. It's good stuff. Marc Winter (04:10) Wow. Paul Fattinger (04:18) It's really nice. Marc Winter (04:18) Talk about life transitions I admire. That's a good one. ⁓ Paul Fattinger (04:22) I really admire that, it's a complete ⁓ shift. Some things are similar, obviously the selling of the product and stuff, but these guys are working really, really hard. Obviously not only in vineyards but also to sell the stuff and market it, impressive. Cheers to them and thanks for the bottle that I got at discount. Marc Winter (04:32) What? Well, you know, as my uncle says... Well, good. Cheers to that. Well, I'll close before we transition. You my uncle was as a vineyard. He always says that, you know, winemaking is a partnership with Mother Nature, but unfortunately, she's the senior partner. that's a good one. I kind of liked it. So, hey, how's your week been? Good? Paul Fattinger (05:03) Good, very good, very good. No complaints. I have been okay, I think better than you, because I saw pictures from your last weekend and I got a headache just looking at this shit. Marc Winter (05:15) Yes, yes. Well, that's a decent ⁓ transition to the topic that we want to cover today, which is called Guy's Weekends, which I've been still recovering from. It's Friday. I think I started a week ago. Paul Fattinger (05:30) I mean, seeing you ⁓ with an alcohol-free IPA, it's a bit recovering myself today and I'm drinking this Castle wine really for our sake. So you showing up with this anti-alcoholic beverage ⁓ makes a bit of a dent into our friendship that I think we will have to talk about either in this vlog or at some point because... Boah! Marc Winter (05:42) Ha ha ha! Yeah, listen, I'm violating the rules. but when I... Paul Fattinger (05:56) Like, I mean, rules, honor, holds, I you name it. mean, all the things you're violating, it's like... Marc Winter (06:03) When I get into the levels of consumption, you'll understand why and periods. But before we get into the Guys Weekend, what it is, why we need them, et cetera, I actually, funny enough, about 20 minutes before recording, I got an email from Scott Galloway in his little newsletter, which I actually thought was a proper introduction to Guys Weekend. Let's see if I can do it right and why it matters. Paul Fattinger (06:09) Okay. Hmm. Marc Winter (06:31) It's a lot about the state of male friendships, funny enough. And interestingly, I think when we first started to record, we talked about that as a great reason as we get older to do something like this, the power of it. But ⁓ it feels more astute and amplified when you get a little data behind it. So I want to read this to you. So you share this. In America, about three decades ago, Paul Fattinger (06:33) Yeah. Marc Winter (06:57) 55 % of men reported having at least six close friends. Plenty for a pickup game of basketball, right? And today only 27 % of men can say the same. Worse, 15 % of men say they have zero friends. A 5 % increase since 1990. So like, let's read the sentence again. I said, nearly one in seven men today don't have a single person he can call to shoot hoops, grab a drink, or catch a movie. Paul Fattinger (07:08) Hmph. Marc Winter (07:25) Isn't that mind blowing, right? So it's a, well, that'll take us to a different topic. I mean, he's talking about male isolation. There's a lot of reasons for that technology. Yeah, porn hub, you know, that kind of thing. Exactly. But. Paul Fattinger (07:26) That's insane. Wild. Yes, I think that's a whole... I mean, obviously, Exactly. Marc Winter (07:44) It is a lot of the impetus. think when many of us feel the need to rekindle friendship or rekindle some of the magic of an early friendship, what we do is often we conceive of a guy's weekend. And that's the topic of today. And so I wanted to first open up to you, Paul. So first of all, when was the last time you had a guy's weekend? Paul Fattinger (08:06) I just thought about this as I started and... See, the already very telling answer is I don't know. It must have been two, if not three years ago. Marc Winter (08:13) Okay. Okay, but it's two three, okay, okay Paul Fattinger (08:21) It's been a while. It's been a while. Marc Winter (08:23) Can you ask, first of all, let's even back up from there. Why do we need a guys weekend in the first place? Paul Fattinger (08:30) Let's define a guys weekend maybe. Because when I go to visit you or we go to Paris, the two of us, to me that's not a guys weekend. And that's not disqualifying you because there's only two guys. And I want to talk about this too, that is a very different dynamic if you have two guys or if you have more than two. Marc Winter (08:33) Sure. Paul Fattinger (08:50) And it actually starts at two plus one. That's really it. So apart from that, which has been a source, very great resource for me, actually, those weekends that we had in the past years, and there were plenty of those because we luckily saw each other very often. I think it's been really three years. Why do we do that? I think if I think of how my boys' go, and I'm really curious and I think we are going in similar direction there, it is great to... Marc Winter (08:50) Tour. Yeah. Paul Fattinger (09:17) Those weekends I usually do with a very specific group of friends that are from Graz, from where I'm from. those are really my oldest friends. And some of those... Marc Winter (09:25) I Paul Fattinger (09:26) Some of those I probably at the time that I see them, I wouldn't have seen for a few years ever since we did the last Boys Weekend maybe because we went to school together and it's always the same kind of group of four, five, six people or guys that we were closer when we actually went to college and university those early twenties I would say and after that we continued to see each other. And so it's A, great to see those guys again. It's B, great because you kind of fall back into almost a childish way of interacting and of into old things and it goes like this and as a result you completely switch off I mean it's like a complete you also I mean lose any sense of responsibility ⁓ orientation what any sense you know basically after a while and there's a complete switch off and you get out of this and you are actually kind of very like ha nice Marc Winter (10:21) Hmm. Paul Fattinger (10:22) Maybe that's a very superficial answer to this and it's probably also not what your newsletter meant. But that's what it is for me at least. Eating, drinking, talking shit. ⁓ Marc Winter (10:29) No, that was just... ⁓ Yeah, yeah. So I think it's funny, actually, your response makes me want to bifurcate the guys weekends I have. So I think there's the friends that you made from like, let's say high school or middle school on, your Graz friends, which actually literally the same people I went on with this past weekend. And then I think there are the friends that you pick up later in life. I would include you in them, right? And they still go out on guys weekends, but it's slightly different in terms of tone because... Paul Fattinger (10:51) Mm-hmm. Marc Winter (11:04) And I don't know why. I think in the first bucket, it's also an opportunity, and this isn't better or worse, it's also an opportunity for you to slide into an old pair of shoes, if you were a teenager a little bit. You remember? Yeah. Paul Fattinger (11:17) Yes, yeah, yeah, that's what I meant. It's like you go there and immediately it's a bit like you're back and you're of almost in the same roles, although you're not. Like, you know, I have this friend of mine who is not a doctor and is making great money and so on, but he was always that kind of socialist that was telling me, why capitalism is bad and blah, So he's still telling me this shit is like, dude, you're making, you don't know, a few hundred thousand bucks a year. Shut the fuck up. You're like part of the 1 % now. Chill out. You don't have to go, you know, classes on me. Marc Winter (11:22) Yeah. Yeah. Paul Fattinger (11:47) anymore. But still it's the same then and it's like why? As an example. Marc Winter (11:47) Ha ha ha ha! Yeah, no, it's a good one. And for me, it's the same. I was with, and let me just take our listeners through my weekend if I can. So basically, five guys from ⁓ my high school come together. My brother's actually one of them, and four others. And it's ⁓ a journey of slipping into old shoes, but with a little bit more money, and high ambition for systematic self-destruction. And so we arrived. Paul Fattinger (12:02) Please. Marc Winter (12:23) And people play at it with like, we decided we've all become good cooks, we just want to eat. So the mode is, let's rent a house in the middle of nowhere. And the reason why we do that is upstate New York. So up in the Catskills. So the reason why is that you could rent a beach home and stuff, and then people can hear us. And if things get a little out of control, then the cops come. So it's a idea. you could see where it's going. Paul Fattinger (12:33) Where did you go? ⁓ wow. I like the... So we're thinking it through. We know it's gonna get out of hand. We know we're gonna maybe do things that we shouldn't be seen doing. Let's go somewhere very... Exactly. Far, far away. Marc Winter (12:53) You We should be doing exactly totally private. It case, it's good out of hand. Exactly. So usually the way it works is like someone is bringing ⁓ insane amounts of meat. That was my friend Paul, like, like literally, you know, ridiculous. Yeah. Ridiculous. Yeah. Paul Fattinger (13:13) I saw that. Oh my beautiful. Ridiculous. mean, the things were almost wider than they were long, you know? I mean, they were like square, they're cubes of meat. Amazing. Marc Winter (13:21) Yeah. Yeah, obscene, know, brought for at least twice the amount of people. That was for night one. So someone's buying the meat and there was another, you know, four kilo of, no, that's even more, five kilo beef shoulder brisket that we smoked the next day. It was ridiculous. So someone does that, right? Someone is then in charge of, ⁓ let's call it, we bring it. Paul Fattinger (13:39) No. Marc Winter (13:47) AV projector. like, like we literally hang an entire sheet off the wall and we project movies like as loud as we can, cetera, alongside music. So that happens all the time. We watched, course, the nature of the movies are no, no, no, no, no porn action, which is kind of funny. actually watched the latest Jason Strayer movie, The Beekeeper. Did you see this? Paul Fattinger (13:57) What did you watch? David does Hollywood or? Oh, amazing, amazing. What is it called? I'm gonna watch it tonight now. I don't know, but it's not, I've seen it already. I saw it already. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Marc Winter (14:15) Of course! The big... It's called the beekeeper. You know, of course. He's... ⁓ Oh no, there's the next one, which is a, is it a good man or, I don't know, some, whatever. It was Jason's say that like, stupid shit you want on the background, right? Just to be like, like, like stuff you would watch when you were, that was awesome when you were a teenager, right? That's the whole point. Then of, yeah, of course, and you're hungover and, and, great. Paul Fattinger (14:29) What I want, I'm it up and I'm gonna watch it. mean, just like, stupid shit, yeah. Yeah, and when you are alone at home and you don't admit it because you're like, I'm reading your book, you're right, you are. Marc Winter (14:48) And then you need, okay, so then you have that, like the entertainment. Then you've got, of course, the alcohol, which is, well, I usually curate some of that. You you want the booze, you want the, I decided to keep it simple. We're gonna do margaritas all weekend, mezcal, this kind of stuff. Then there's, of course, wine, but then like full on, during the day drinking is mezcal. He's already cracking up. You guys are. Paul Fattinger (15:02) No one. It's the pyramid so there is a base layer the base layer is like the nutritional Pyramids is like there is water somewhere like of course, but that's there but then you have white wine and rosé kind of for the day drinking then you have red wine for the meat right and then you have the margaritas and then on that nutritional let's say the the how do you call this right there the fun pyramid you have other stuff too I guess like something to sprinkle on top Marc Winter (15:23) Yeah, totally. Of course. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. well, well, so then, yeah, there's the, then there's, someone will bring what we'll call the party favors, right, which will be some mix of marijuana, psychedelics, et cetera, right? If someone wants to do that, they can do that. And, the top of the pyramid, which usually somehow starts on Friday and then things just explode and we just, you know, it just gets a little bit nuts. And so that was, ⁓ how it started. And that was a three day kind of. Paul Fattinger (15:48) Top of the pyramid. Marc Winter (16:03) Bender and would you realize after that is, first of all was so fun, mean just to hang out. You can regulate yourself obviously, you know, we've had different versions of these things but... But I also think it's slipping into old shoes and also I think for guys like us, I guess, you know... Paul Fattinger (16:16) Yeah, he just didn't do it, but yeah. You could. You One could, but I Marc Winter (16:32) testing the age limit. How older can we really still perform like that and still go, you know? It's interesting to find out the answer. No, that's it. Paul Fattinger (16:37) you know sorry to jump in there you know the other day i read somewhere i read somewhere nowadays 40 year olds are just 20 year olds with more money So the other thing is like, actually, whenever somebody says, I read somewhere that, know, on the podcast, actually means when I scrolled, doom scrolled Instagram the other day, I saw this in our two and a half. I saw this real and that's actually where I saw it. So it was a really funny, real, extreme, some middle-aged dudes kind of going for some, some. Marc Winter (17:03) Yeah ⁓ Yeah. Paul Fattinger (17:19) house beats and it's just that nowadays 40 year olds are just 20 year olds with more money, with money. So that's basically what I've been thinking about every second of what you were saying. Marc Winter (17:24) That's true. It's though I was talking about, it's fair. But you know, I will say though, and maybe this gets a little bit to the heart of it, I think the journey of doing these things, and it's been six years since we last did it. So there was COVID, there was a really long period. I mean, it's not that we haven't all been together at weddings and stuff, but I wrote every one, I think, and I said, look guys, this just has to be the year. We have to do it, you know? And you know, we get better at it. We learn from past mistakes, you know? Paul Fattinger (17:42) Wow. Marc Winter (17:57) about what to do, at like the one point in time, someone, I don't know, eight years ago, someone brought a bag of mushrooms that we all did, we thought that was a good idea, and you know, my brother was talking to a cantaloupe for like, 30, there wasn't a lot of bonding, we were all just going on our own trips, know, and then like, this time it less adventure, like that kind of stuff, and it was, this was much more about like, you know, enjoying stuff collectively together. And that was a lot of fun. Paul Fattinger (18:13) Fear, Yeah, I'm sure it sounds lots of fun. I would love to come next time to be honest. mean, you know, we should do something similar. Let's put it like this. But I have a question to you. During those three days, what did you talk about? Or maybe other way around, did you talk, did you have a, you know, do you know now how your old friends, whatever. Marc Winter (18:29) Yeah, yeah, I agree. I love that idea. Paul Fattinger (18:49) name he is, friend number three, now your brother who you haven't seen for years, wife is doing? Or have you talked about things like this, like deeper things, like, you know, or was it just trash and shit talking for three days? Marc Winter (18:58) Yeah. So I think, no, but actually I think this is really important. I think 20 % was deep. Usually in the later part of the evening, you know, like someone might ask or pivot to someone, you know, on a sidebar, have that conversation. And then 80 % is more surface level. But the 80 % surface levels wasn't just talking shit and stuff like that. I mean, a lot of it was about politics or, you know, what's wrong with capital, you know, it's, it's smart conversation, but it wasn't focused on. Paul Fattinger (19:21) Hmm. Marc Winter (19:27) who we are as human beings. As a matter of fact, think during that 80%, like reflecting on our opinions and stuff, was so enjoyable. You you already showed enough of that, how you are and how you're thinking and how you matured, which is nice. And, you know, because you wanna feel... I don't think it's just about maximizing the time to have serious, heartfelt conversations. One on one, it's also about easing into a friendship when it was just relaxed and when you casually saw each other after school. And that also feels really lovely to kind of recreate that and modernize it in a way, not ⁓ as a nostalgia trip. Paul Fattinger (20:10) Yeah, no, I hear you and I'm not, I'm also when I ask is I'm not. I'm not trying to judge this, I'm just trying to see whether, you know, what I experienced on my, you know, Boys Week, it's on Männerwochen in Germany, right, in German, what we do is the same, because I always remembered, you know, my, ex-wife asking me, and it's so funny, because there's actually a piece of stand-up comedy in German, an Austrian guy, I'll post it under the show notes, it's really fun. And she always asks me, you know, how is... Marc Winter (20:16) Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Paul Fattinger (20:42) whatever her name is, know, XYZ's wife to him. How are their kids? it's like, I don't fucking know. We didn't talk about this. And did you hear about this? You know, I think his girlfriend just got a new job. It's like, never heard of it. It's like the first time I hear this. Marc Winter (20:46) I fucking don't. you Actually, okay. Paul Fattinger (21:05) And there's this great scene and this guy is, he will crack up, so he comes home is like, six o'clock in the morning, my wife already sits in the kitchen, I come home completely hammered and she sits there with her cup of coffee and is like, so, how was your evening? What did you talk about? ⁓ some problems and how is is Bertha doing? Who? Bertha, you know, your friend's wife. I have no idea. is exactly, it is literally exactly how it always felt. We never talked about this and I don't feel bad about this, but it was not. And we talked about lots of what, as I said, politics and capitalism and old shoes and old dynamics. Marc Winter (21:26) you You I'm curious how people feel about the world, of course. Paul Fattinger (21:45) Yes, and you talk about this and then you also sometimes really when we always went bowling and you know we got to his friends Alfie's place and you know... In Styria they have an old farmhouse and there is an old gas house close by ⁓ where you eat and they have a bowling alley in which we broke because we threw the things and they went through the wall and whatever. It's always hilarious and someone puked in the flowers because they had too much to eat and drink. It was always and the owner there always would cook for us. crazy stuff, know, we would go in the kitchen with him. Super, super fun. There's that part, there's the discussing world problems, usually a bit illuminated and it gets quite heated. But it's very seldom, I would say, things, as you said, about the personal lives so much. Marc Winter (22:35) As a matter of fact, I'm ready to declare, your guy's weekend has gone wrong. If you can come back and tell your wife, your beloved one, everything about their kids, their wife, that means you weren't vibing. That's the right answer. If you can answer. Paul Fattinger (22:47) Yeah. Yes, exactly. It's like, I have no idea. It's like, I really, I have no idea. It's like, I have no, and actually I remember, I remember so vividly the feeling when she asked me that. I almost felt like I did something wrong and I was in, I was in Disneyland and didn't see Mickey Mouse basically. So I was like, fuck, how could it be? But it was like. I'm I'm telling you, there was no Mickey Mouse. It wasn't there. We didn't talk about it. Marc Winter (23:18) man, well... Well, needless to say, I mean, I think these things are, and I encourage you to think about, important. We decided we actually going do this more of an annual thing. And in some cases even bi-annual. My friend was like, yeah, we should do this with our kids, right? And I'm like, fuck, no. Are you crazy? He's like, yeah, I know the dynamic will be different. You know, there's... Paul Fattinger (23:31) Yeah. Fuck no. One more idea like this in your heart. Are you Marc Winter (23:48) I'm your mom! Paul Fattinger (23:48) out of your fucking mind? It's like, what did you not get about this weekend? I had a serious problem there. Was he a brother? Good, good, because I would have kicked his ass. Marc Winter (23:54) Yeah, exactly. No, it wasn't, was another friend. Well, the other thing is like, you don't want to see your friends as parents, you know, I mean, it's nice to see them as parents. No, of course you do, but like on a guy's weekend, on a weekend, that's a horrible idea. Different schedules. Paul Fattinger (24:12) Also in general it's not a great idea, I agree with you because if you don't agree with parenting sites and stuff that can actually cause a... I mean it's a whole different story that is also an entire series of podcasts actually on this. ⁓ But yeah, okay, no kids. Maybe let's do it with our wives. Marc Winter (24:24) Of course. Of course. Alright. No kids. Alright. ⁓ man. No, no, no. Yeah. Okay. So what I thought could be fun, or to think through, is surfacing some tensions here. Like if you were to think about designing your perfect, you, Paul, going... Paul Fattinger (24:36) No way man. ⁓ Okay. Marc Winter (24:52) ringing up your grads friends tomorrow. Say guys, we're overdue. I'm gonna surface some tensions. Let's see if you can design it in your brain, what the selling point's gonna be. Yeah? fun? Okay. So, big tension. So listen, is it gonna be more about adventure or relaxation? Paul Fattinger (25:02) Okay, Yeah, that's the fun. Relaxation. Marc Winter (25:12) going to to fuck off. Okay, cool. And when you say relaxation, what does that mean to you? Spa weekend? Massages. Paul Fattinger (25:21) And... No, fuck no. like... It depends, but that's more than the steak night kind of thing, which I also wanted to talk about, because that's also a very special kind of boys' weekend, the steak night, no? It's like almost an undercategory. Very important. Anyways. Marc Winter (25:35) Yes. Yeah, yeah, totally. Paul Fattinger (25:41) Maybe also different episode that we're gonna sell the access to because it's gonna be probably R rated. Or get us lots of problems. we have to... To me relaxation is actually a bit what you described. Getting some humongous steaks, making them maybe open fire or something. Just chilling out, having beers, sitting around. Maybe go for a little walk. That's relaxing. Some act... Marc Winter (25:46) Yeah. Death. Yes. Paul Fattinger (26:10) Activeness is fine there. I don't need to sit in a spa like on a girls weekend. mean, that's just no way. But I'm also in terms of adventure. I don't need to go rafting and stuff like this. To me, that's almost too much action. Marc Winter (26:23) Cool, okay, that's a great design. Okay, I can see the invitation coming together. Now, probably related, are we gonna, is this about reliving glory days or something a little more novel? Paul Fattinger (26:38) I kind of like that we live in glory days idea to be honest in a sense it has this nostalgic thing and if I if I thought you know of doing a boys weekend with you and you know and our friend in Dubai and our other friend who now lives in Madrid and you know we had shared a car and so on I would I mean I would definitely go and do a revival of the Morocco trip or Marc Winter (27:01) Duh. Paul Fattinger (27:01) the Bilbao trip, you know, and kind of, yeah, Marc Winter (27:02) Duh. Paul Fattinger (27:04) I would say it's kind of Golden Times, back to Golden Times vibe. Marc Winter (27:10) Alright, and how spontaneous or structured are you going to keep this thing? Paul Fattinger (27:14) There is no, and I mean absolutely zero, spontaneity in these things. If you want it to happen in 2027, you better start organizing three months ago. Marc Winter (27:24) No, no, no, during the weekend, how structured or spontanean. Paul Fattinger (27:29) I need some structure, I need some structure because also that's kind of depending on those people, some of them don't have any and then they start pissing me off. And if it's it goes about, it's about, yeah, know, we eat whenever, no, no, we eat soon because I'm fucking hungry and if I'm hungry and I don't get my steaks on time and they're overcooked and you fuckers don't make the potatoes at the right time and then the potatoes are cold or undercooked when the steaks are ready. When the steaks are ready and need to be eaten, they need to be eaten within the next five, minutes right so everything else needs to follow this I'm very strict about this okay so Marc Winter (28:02) Okay, ⁓ Paul Fattinger (28:16) Yeah, yeah, yes, yes. The rest, I don't give a shit. The rest, I don't care. The rest should be spontaneous almost, but the eating and drinking stuff should be, yeah. Marc Winter (28:26) Like I want to be clear what's available for me and I want to be like, you don't have tell me when, I just want to be clear. And then I also want to be clear about what we're eating. We fucked up both times. We both ended up eating at like 10.30 or 11, but that's back to Dora. Own disorganization. exactly, exactly. All right. And then, so I want to flip it around. when we think about deep conversation versus super fun, Paul Fattinger (28:29) Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Marc Winter (28:54) Yeah, what are you craving? You yourself. Paul Fattinger (28:57) I mean, this is when I thought about what we're going to talk today. This was one of my bigger topics. right. mean, obviously because this podcast is also about having those honest conversations and I don't think I've had a, it's not true. I think in the end when you kind of end up, but that's always usually how it goes with my voice weekend. So Marc Winter (29:07) Mm. Paul Fattinger (29:17) starting from a little bit after midnight, one by one starts to kind of break away. And then you kind of are left with like two or three people in the end. And that's when then the deeper conversations start really happening, which I find really fascinating and that they don't happen so much on a group level, but as soon as you, I don't know if you also experienced that, as soon as you kind of remove a few players and you really get done on a one-on-one for sure, or maybe even a two to one, Marc Winter (29:29) ⁓ of course. Paul Fattinger (29:47) gets a bit more deeper and personal. And I remember that when it was in you know, kind of height of my whole divorce story and stuff. I remember we had one, it must have been 22 or something like this. So yeah, it's three years ago. And then we had a conversation about this because a friend of mine who I hadn't seen in a long time was like, Hey man, what's going on? Right. I mean, we haven't talked. So how are you doing? What's happening? How did this happen? So that was an actually really good and deep conversation, but it was like 2 % of like the whole weekend, if you want. Right. Marc Winter (29:49) you Yeah. But... Yeah, I mean I think that resonates. You what I always find is in a collection of friends, even you can have like three that might want to focus to go kind of deep on a topic or if it gets a little bit more real. there's usually one who always likes to keep it light, you know, then insert a joke and disrupt it a little bit. He's like, yeah, you mean like, you know, that time you kissed that girl, you know, or something like an old school thing to just thwart it. And, and, you know, which brings me a little bit to the ideal size of these things because, you know, I actually think like the ideal size for one is six, max eight, and eight is a real, probably a little bit too much. Paul Fattinger (30:38) Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Marc Winter (31:00) Because at that point in time, you can always a little bit break off. People can come together. They're doing activities, and then you have a shared thing. Paul Fattinger (31:00) Mmm. Yeah, yeah, yeah. mean, apart from the fact that I think eight, you don't even get organized eight. That's like a sensation if you make that happen. So I agree. Marc Winter (31:12) Sure, I mean this is also... ⁓ Paul Fattinger (31:16) Four is almost too small, five is really nice, six is really nice, seven can also be still nice. But it's a bit like in a business meeting, right? You say that you have to, can have a maximum of seven people in a meeting making decisions. Otherwise it becomes a debate club, right? It's the same thing. You can't run a decision meeting with more than eight participants other than the others are shutting up, right? And not just taking notes or whatever. But I think it's very similar there. But coming back to what you said, I find that very interesting, right? Marc Winter (31:20) Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right, right, right, right. Totally. Paul Fattinger (31:44) has always this one person and I also just not recently but I remember that I went out for dinner with two friends you know one night and it actually just ended up you know being me and another friend for the first 45 minutes or so and and we very quickly had a very very nice and deep and great conversation and all of a sudden the third person came up who I can also have a conversation with you know one one but but somehow that energy evaporated like immediately it was gone Marc Winter (32:03) Mm. Yeah. Paul Fattinger (32:13) The rest of the night was fun. ⁓ but superficial and kind of left me and that tends to happen more and more. if you're, you know, coming back to your original question, what would I prefer? I would prefer to have a good share of deep, not completely drunk conversation that you can actually remember, right? But also the stupid fun and letting go and not thinking of anything kind of thing that really switches your brain off and also takes you completely to the moment because that's also what happens because you're so there cracking up. Marc Winter (32:37) Yeah, yeah. Paul Fattinger (32:46) doing mistakes, eating them, know, blah, blah, that you are really here. And that's a quality that I think also calms your nerves and your nervous system and everything that we don't get too often. So I'd like all of it, but I guess a bit more, a bit less of the superficial stuff. Let's put it like this. Marc Winter (33:03) Yeah, agreed. I also think like we have in this moment a lot to offer each other ⁓ as we kind of navigate in our mid 40s now or some of entering or at in that lens. There's a lot of Paul Fattinger (33:14) Hmm. Marc Winter (33:24) patterns that we've seen. There are a lot of, you know, in our professional lives and other aspects of our personal lives that you can kind of bring in as you explore different types of conversations because life has become even richer, right, than when it was when it was 20s. Paul Fattinger (33:37) man, absolutely. I still want to go back to the other topic, but to close it off, right? mean, if I think about it, five, six, seven, eight, nine, 10 years ago, also those things were a bit more chest beating because we were all in those mid thirties, right? And then kind of striving and thinking, and also where, you know, careers kind of like, okay, someone got a promotion or just got something quicker than others. And it was really a step ahead professionally all of a sudden. you kind of feel like, Marc Winter (33:51) Yeah. Paul Fattinger (34:04) big guy. So it was more still, I think that, know, a gorillas meeting and that kind of changed, right? Because now you meet and then like, you know, five of us meet, there's like two are divorced, you know, they're, they're issues and, and the, and whatever, one can't have kids because it doesn't work. And that's actually really weighing on him. So just really more shit also happening that is, that is tough. I agree with you. We have more to share and probably also bigger need of. sharing. Sorry, can I come back to this other thing? But why do you think it is this way? As you said, there's always one who cracks a joke. You think men are incapable of having proper conversations or is it that there's just more men that are not capable of doing it? So as soon as you have five, the probability that you have at least two that don't really feel comfortable with it are there and hence you don't have it. Because, and let me finish this, I ask also in preparation of this women what they talk about, you know, on girls weekends. And what do you think? I mean, did you ask Vera, you know, what they talk about? Marc Winter (35:11) Just enough girl, she's having hers this weekend, so I can ask her. ⁓ Paul Fattinger (35:13) Yes, basically what I heard in multiple of course we talk about serious stuff all the time. We talk about our relationships, about sex, this, about that, very detailed. Have you ever talked like seriously about sex on any of your... not did you see David does Hollywood 3, right? of way. But actual sex with your partner and how it goes and your insecurity. No way. Marc Winter (35:32) Yeah. It would be impossible. I would not even remotely dare. Paul Fattinger (35:42) Absolutely. Yeah. And so why is that? And do you think we should be capable? Marc Winter (35:48) Well, I think... I think... well, well, I'll bring it up to you... I think vulnerability is a very foreign thing to modern manhood, right? To be vulnerable, to share, etc. And so, like, and in the spectrum of vulnerability, there's, um, you know, my career, there's, like, my k-pop, blah, blah, blah, and then I think your point about stuff is on the other, like, deepest type of vulnerability, right with... Paul Fattinger (36:00) Agree. Yes. Yeah, no man ever on a boys' week would say, guys, I've really had problems lately, I can't get a boner, or I ejaculate too quickly, or I can't have an orgasm. No one would ever... Marc Winter (36:23) No. ⁓ and also, and also I don't want to, I don't want to know, you know? I would prefer that, yeah, I've also killed it. Well, I mean, I would, I look, if, mean, I... So good. And that is the end of guys like us. Exactly. That's how, that's how it... Paul Fattinger (36:32) I said, but here you go. Why would you not want to know? We're gonna have a serious conversation after this about my war gusset. Hahaha! Marc Winter (36:49) That's how this experiment ended. Yeah, thank you. Exactly. Prematurely, which is, I'm sure, the nature of your orgasmic setup. No, I mean, no, no, no. I mean, think I would be ⁓ open to listening. I don't know what I would have to say. Like, if... ⁓ Paul Fattinger (36:53) It's not the nature of my problem, but this is also not for today's podcast. Marc Winter (37:17) If someone were telling me, I don't even know how we're on this, but if someone were telling me that he is struggling with performance, I would lend an empathetic ear, right? And that's it. But I I would feel, what is the word, like, fremscham, right? Like I would really, yeah, fremscham. Like, that's not quite true. I would just feel like it's... Paul Fattinger (37:37) fremdschemen Marc Winter (37:44) It's something we rarely, maybe we should talk about it more, but I I just wish for everyone that they're doing well. I agree. Paul Fattinger (37:52) It's the same function of vulnerability, think, is the same function. And fremdschemen, you know, and to feel embarrassed for someone else, right, is exactly that. You feel embarrassed because you see something in someone that you already feel embarrassed seeing another person do that, let alone how you would feel yourself, right? And that's exactly that. And so I think it's a bit about vulnerability. I mean, it just... Marc Winter (38:00) Yeah, right. Yeah, that's true. Paul Fattinger (38:20) first principle analogy if women can talk about it also have orgasms of the same thing there's also performance things there is no 0.0 reason why we shouldn't and couldn't or wouldn't Marc Winter (38:25) Bye. That's true. actually, know what? know what? No, no, no. And I would be interested to know and then I'll get us back on topic first. But I would be actually interested to know like the amount of podcasts, because as far as I know, all the sex talk podcasts, you know, that are done are hosted by women, at least in the States, like by a large percentage. I think, I think a very few are actually run by men or we straight men. Paul Fattinger (38:32) There can't be a serious no gene. is nothing. Anywhere, all the end. I'm talking out of school here. I really don't know. But I would assume. Marc Winter (38:59) We will circle back next week with the data. I'm curious about it. ⁓ yeah, I mean, look, think the reality is that I think we, you and I obviously, we like ⁓ and are comfortable and are eager to pursue the different realms of... ⁓ Paul Fattinger (39:03) We shall. Marc Winter (39:24) of truth, and our friends in the pursuit of that, you know, to get very real about our collective experience and try to learn from that and et cetera. And I feel like for others, you know, when you start to get really hard, I think when they might feel required to share something they're not comfortable sharing and that's why they break it with a light joke or they don't feel like it's time, you know, it's, I don't know. I don't know. Paul Fattinger (39:50) Yeah, no, I I think you hit the nail on the head when you said, think it is about vulnerability. that's why I also like to bring it up, because this is also at the heart of our show. And if I think about it, what's the takeaway from this is to actually maybe bring that to the table. And that's the only way, I think, to... to also really help your friends is to start the conversation, right? And maybe also to call it out, right? And not to let it be sidetracked, not to call out that person that obviously is uncomfortable with it, but to bring it back and to just, you can't force it, but I think you can gently try to have a conversation and try to talk about it. And I think that's important. That's important for us. I think the switching off part is great, but to be honest, I personally feel that if they're... Marc Winter (40:17) Yeah. Paul Fattinger (40:43) would be more serious and deep conversations where people open up and talk about problems and feelings and fears and anxieties and whatever they have. I think that would benefit and I think it's the best group you can have a group of men who at the end all have those kind of problems. If we're honest with each other, same shit's happening and we will benefit from that. Marc Winter (41:01) Yeah, I mean, there's the logic, like, if you, even the most basic questions of, you know, should I do, take this job or what am I becoming? if I, I, if I, you know, make this career transition or, like, I think those are, those open questions are really interesting to. Paul Fattinger (41:21) Exactly. Marc Winter (41:28) to bring to the table and if you're not going to draw on from your friends then who are going to draw from to help answer that? I agree. And too many shoulder that are they keep it inside. know, I have a close friend who always answered fine all the time, right, until they cracked. we all know we all know people like that. Paul Fattinger (41:45) Yeah, so I think that's, but you wanted to bring us back on track or are we already at the end of this service? There's something, some piece of wisdom that we can summarize with or, okay, sorry. Marc Winter (41:55) Well, no, no, I just also want to say, so when we think, first of I'm already understanding the brief of your Perfect Guys Weekend, by the way, for, you're gonna write for your quads, some relaxation. By the, is there a Guys Weekend for you that does not include stakes? Paul Fattinger (42:02) Okay, yeah. Mm-hmm. Mmm. This is highly unlikely. However, I think if we went to Norway and did some activity adventure based shit and caught some amazing salmon, then I would say that's Yeah, yeah, okilera or something like this. But is there a boys wiki that includes tofu? Absolutely never ever. Marc Winter (42:12) Yeah, say what? Yeah, or kill a reindeer. Yeah, of course. yeah, okay. Clear. Okay, so insane stakes, beautifully chosen wine by Paul, ⁓ conversation that's measuring roughly, let's call it 70 % superficial or like... ⁓ Paul Fattinger (42:37) Cheers, yeah. I would say 50 % stupid banter, 25 % politics and 25 % personal stuff. Marc Winter (42:56) First time real shit, good. But more through the lens of reliving the glory days. That's the right thing. ⁓ Is there, that actually feels like pretty compelling to me. I have a question for you guys, especially for your high school friends. It's a really tactical one, but how do you guys approach budget for this? Paul Fattinger (43:01) Yeah. Wanna come? Yeah. Yeah. Marc Winter (43:17) knowing that probably your friends are across the spectrum in... Paul Fattinger (43:22) I think that's also levelled out. That's why I meant a bit with, you know, the 30s. I think that's where you had the biggest, you know... Marc Winter (43:29) Let's stay in a hostel versus let's stay in a... ⁓ Paul Fattinger (43:29) differences. You know, all... Yeah, yeah, mean, that's also when you organize stack weekends, right? Always the problem. That if you have an inhomogeneous group... So how I always solve this, and I would continue to do this, is if I brought the wine... Like the meat, everyone is happy to pay and that's fine, right? If I brought the wine and I wanted something really nice and special that I knew, then I would just bring it. Marc Winter (43:37) growth is the worst. Paul Fattinger (43:54) I was like, fuck this. I want to drink something nice and if some idiot doesn't want to pay for it, he's not going to get it and I'm happy to have a conversation about this and we can do a blind tasting and then he can decide. But I would also be happy to share this and say, fuck it. It's a bottle of wine or two, who cares. But with the rest, and that's why we always had it in this friend's place, it was really always kind of low budget in a sense and not a problem. But I can see that being a problem. Marc Winter (44:07) Mm. Mm. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I will say, you know, it's funny, had a, from my closest friends, it was always ⁓ challenged by the budget and, you know, arguing over 50 bucks here or there and I was like, Jesus Christ. But this time, you know, it's funny and I'm very fine to him out on this podcast. Like he was in charge for buying the meat. He's the one who bought those ridiculous steaks, right? And I was like, okay, right? And he's like, yeah, I was like, much were these steaks? I had a curiosity. He's like, oh, it's $260. I was like, for three, not bad. Yeah, not bad at all. And I was like, okay, he's ready to ball. Paul Fattinger (44:53) Not bad, But for these huge things, I these were like 12 kilos or something. Exactly. Okay. Okay. So now I'm also getting the vibe, man. I'm getting, I'm getting in the mood. So what else, what else do I have to decide on? I'm all excited actually. Yeah. Marc Winter (45:00) Yeah, exactly. I'm still digesting it by the way. I think like, yeah, now you need to get going, right? Now the question is, the final question is for entertainment. Are you guys a, you're bringing movies or you're just drinking? Are you playing video games? Like what's the, what's your Paul Fattinger (45:30) So we're an absolutely new video game generation. don't think we, I mean, any one of us even had a Game Boy, basically, that's how old we are and how backwards we were. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I grew up with two TV channels up until I basically was 18 and moved out. Two, two. I'm not shitting you. Or I have two, yeah. That's it. Not that there was, you know, we had... Marc Winter (45:38) Jesus dude What? OSF or whatever? Yeah. Paul Fattinger (45:59) Funny enough, you know I went to high school in Shelby, Ohio in 1999 and some people actually did ask me if we had cars and roads and clothes and shit. we did have all of that, right? And we actually also more channels would have been available, but my parents somehow decided that's not necessarily. Anyways. Marc Winter (46:03) Yeah, yeah. Yeah, of course, toy links and stuff, yeah. Paul Fattinger (46:16) So no video games, no movies. Actually for us it's mostly sitting, drinking, talking. We usually go to that one restaurant. Our restaurant is a very simple place, a I would say. And they have this bowling alley in the basement, so that's what we would do. Listen to music. And there's always one guy that kind of starts with the music. That's always fun and that's it. Not much entertainment, Marc Winter (46:38) Okay. No, well, no, we're like entertainment freaks. So first of all, I'm usually, yeah, I'm usually DJing. There are usually a couple of movies on file that'll be watched. Then someone's gonna show some YouTube stuff that will make us laugh. And you know, like, ever see this? That shit's always happening. That kind of crap. And then we always play some video games. Just a little bit, like a little bit of FIFA or a little bit of... Paul Fattinger (46:43) Really? What's happening? Yeah, that's always, I mean, that's kind of an, that's happening, that's happening. Yeah. Really? I mean, that's actually some great ideas to add into the mix for the next time. Man, I'm fired up now. I'm going to see if we even still have a group chat and start. Marc Winter (47:08) it's so much fun. Yeah, yeah. Exactly. Now you've got to organize. Listen, if you need a guest star, I'll be happy to join and teach you guys how it's done. Paul Fattinger (47:20) I know I'm gonna do this. Yeah, but you know you don't speak German well enough. Marc Winter (47:27) That's so true. You know... Paul Fattinger (47:27) Actually, you know I read somewhere that friends who kind of tease each other and give each other shit are 300 % more likely to share their feelings and deep thoughts. And things. So here you go. The fact that I'm taking the piss is actually a sign of love. Marc Winter (47:32) I Yeah, okay. Well, to that end, thank you. Thank you very much. Yeah, exactly, I'll take it. Paul Fattinger (47:56) This German still sucks. Let's close. Marc Winter (47:57) Yeah, okay. So, should we close? ⁓ Your idiot and Terminator of the Week, my friend. Paul Fattinger (48:05) ⁓ So idiot, I wanted to say, because I flew Ryanair twice in the last few weeks, but I had to say it was really not even not terrible experience. It was really very okay. Yes, it's insane. Like I arrived in Vienna when I left in Otebisa and they had these automatic backdrops and I was late and you go there, you scan it. was even little overweight, one kilo. Put it in. Goodbye. Marc Winter (48:19) Really? Paul Fattinger (48:32) went through security, on the plane, sat down, done. I mean, there were a bunch of drunks on the plane, obviously, and so on, but I mean, okay, that's always shit. And then I thought, okay, on the way back, because the way there was a morning flight, the way back was an evening flight, and usually when they fly at five, they already flew 25 times somehow, know, these guys, know, the plane has already been all over Europe. This was usually late, it was on time again, the luggage came out very quickly, and I was like, Jesus, I mean, that's really... Marc Winter (48:49) Yeah, of course. that Paul Fattinger (48:59) and everything online works and stuff. I'm also stunned and really kind of what I thought. Marc Winter (49:00) I'm stumped. I'm stumped. I normally, I really feel like spending time in a Ryan airplane is like sleeping in an Irish brothel. know, afterwards I just need a real shower, it's foul. Paul Fattinger (49:13) Yeah, no, no, but I think it's somehow, when I thought about this, I thought of a of a compound interest function of the efforts they put into their experience, was that they have a great digital service, which obviously is a pain in ass because before you can check in, ask you 52 times if you want to buy some extra service, a car, a hotel, an insurance, God knows what, right? But shit works, man. It just really, really works. Marc Winter (49:34) you Good? Nice! Nice! Paul Fattinger (49:40) So that's my not really Terminator edit of the week, right? I have another Terminator. So what's your edit of the week? Marc Winter (49:46) ⁓ My idiot of the week has to be so I took my brother out for dinner ⁓ on Wednesday night for his birthday. Huh? What'd say? Paul Fattinger (49:53) So he's your brother? So he's your brother? Is your brother the idiot of the week? Marc Winter (49:59) No, no, that would be great. No, exactly. My brother said exactly. No, no, no, no, no, would be funny. Exactly. No, we had an amazing meal ⁓ and ⁓ wine, this kind of stuff. And then at end, my brother was like, you know what? I really feel like I'm in the mood for a joint. And I was like, OK, weed's legal in New York. And so we went to two spots, whatever. then he found one. And man, this looked like the jankiest shop on. Paul Fattinger (50:03) That'd be super fun. ⁓ Marc Winter (50:26) street, you know, lights, Christmas lights, strung together and stuff. But my brother's a little drunk, he casually walked in, he's like, do you, do you sell anything, like a pre-roll, I could just go in and smoke? He's like, yeah, I've only got one thing. He's like, what is it? He's like, I don't know, man, it's a bunch of stuff mashed together, right? So I took a puff of this, right? Two puffs of this. I felt like I was strapped into a rocket ship, blasted off. It went into the moon. Paul Fattinger (50:29) Yeah. Whoops. Marc Winter (50:55) I smashed right through the moon, all the way to Jupiter. We were in the sake bar, I was foaming at the mouth, My brother was like, dude, what was... Yeah, another sake bar, yeah. No, no, no, that's another sake bar. And I mean, it was like... Paul Fattinger (51:05) The stupid sakepai... The same stupid... Marc Winter (51:14) Irresponsible, still, had a day and a half to work out, but my vitals were completely off. I don't know what was in that, but how this shit is legal in New York. Like, I thought it was the easiest thing. Paul Fattinger (51:26) The question now is who is the idiot of the week in this story? Okay, okay, that's a good one. My terminator of the week is actually my hearing because I got really worried that I don't hear my kids well anymore, especially when they ⁓ walk next to me, maybe a little bit behind or they sit in the car behind me. Marc Winter (51:29) Yeah, the guy who it is that... your terminator. Paul Fattinger (51:54) I don't hear them. Then I thought, okay, that could very well be selective hearing because they also like, and if I had a dollar for every time they said papa, right, I would be like a billionaire. Papa, papa, papa, papa, papa, papa. So maybe I switch up. So, and then I actually really read somewhere, I didn't see this on Instagram, that if you don't hear well, that's one of the things that ⁓ accelerates ⁓ neurodegenerative diseases like Alzheimer's or dementia. Marc Winter (51:58) Yeah. Yeah, of course. Paul Fattinger (52:23) because your brain then gets less signals to work on and gets a bit lazy because it doesn't hear shit. So it's really important to detect bad hearing early. So obviously, you know me, I came back to Vienna and I did a hearing test yesterday right away and my hearing is like basically like a 16 year olds perfect. So I said clearly the problem is between the ears. it's between the ears. It's not not within the ears. That's my terminators of the week are my two. Marc Winter (52:30) Mmm. ⁓ amazing. ⁓ That's how you can hear the air conditioning in my background. Paul Fattinger (52:52) huge ears that are working just fine. Marc Winter (52:55) ⁓ Well, ⁓ my Terminator is giving me hearing damage. As all of you guys know, I love to listen to techno and house music while I work. ⁓ There's an incredible DJ I used to love, and still do actually, called Chris Luno. ⁓ Small Berlin guy who dropped a new mix called The Elevator Mix, and it is absolutely banging. Paul Fattinger (53:20) Dude, you have to send it to me. Marc Winter (53:21) I will, I will. It's a terrific hit cut and a perfectly mixed hour of music. And ⁓ it'll keep you groovin'. All right, with that, enjoy your guys' weekend to be. Paul Fattinger (53:30) Nice! I mean, think, yeah, enjoy, do a guys weekend, talk about real shit, Eat good stuff, you know, do entertainment, whatever you want, but just do it, go out, don't be afraid to, you know, talk about orgasms. Marc Winter (53:37) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, with that, take care. Bye. Paul Fattinger (53:49) See you. Ciao.