guyslikeus EP06: nightlife in your mid-40s, what keeps us going, how much is healthy, do we have an a... problem?

Marc Winter (00:13) Hello, welcome to Guys Like Us, the Lafitte Rothschild podcast about privileged middle-aged men, their out-of-touch problems and bougie lifestyles. I'm Mark Winter and I'm joined by Paul Pfatinger. Yeah. Hello, how are you, Paul? Paul Fattinger (00:29) Paul Vardinger, hello, hello. I'm very good, thank you. I had to laugh about your intro actually, because I got, know, friend of mine called me today, he's like, I really like your podcast. I just don't know what you guys are talking about in the beginning with all the wines. So your Lafite, the Rochers Lafite kind of reference was spot on, I guess. Marc Winter (00:51) You Look, if we can keep confusing them and people, that's a great thing. I thought you were going to take us into a different direction. It's funny that you mentioned Lafitte. I was just drinking one the other day. How are you? Paul Fattinger (01:05) No, actually, no, no, no, no. What are you drinking? I'm good, man, I'm good. Back in Vienna. Marc Winter (01:14) I am back in Vienna. Yeah, I can see. I can see with your beautiful art piece behind you. our listeners who can't ⁓ watch this or aren't watching this, I should say, let me give you a visual representation of what's behind Paul's head. It looks like ⁓ some ashy waves of smoke. ⁓ I don't know. What would you describe it? No, it looks like mushrooms. Paul Fattinger (01:42) I don't know. Marc Winter (01:44) Ha Paul Fattinger (01:45) You know, the guy actually who did this is one of the more, I think, famous recent painters, ⁓ Austrian painter, and he just recently died, which I'm very sorry, but also is very good for my investment, you know. Marc Winter (01:59) See, I thought that's what I was going to say. But thank you for having the class. ⁓ I was going to give up. Paul Fattinger (02:05) No, absolutely. I didn't know the guy, I'm sorry for his family, but I'm sure a lot of art collectors would have been like, it was about time. ⁓ Marc Winter (02:14) ⁓ Maybe that's the way it always is in the art world. Every time someone dies, people are like, ⁓ condolences. And they're like, ⁓ god. Paul Fattinger (02:20) ⁓ Especially galleries. Now we have to do a ⁓ Wake, a Remembrance art exhibition. Yeah, bullshit. Marc Winter (02:27) Exactly. exactly. All right. Well, listen, who's sponsoring you today? You look something kind of interesting. What's that? Paul Fattinger (02:33) ⁓ I'll tell you it's my friends from Landgutschöne Erde again Marc Winter (02:40) Ooh, okay. What is, it's a, it's a Gruner, Fertina, nice. Paul Fattinger (02:42) However, it's a Traubensaft. It is anti-alcoholic. Marc Winter (02:49) No. And... Paul Fattinger (02:50) Yes, it took me until episode 6, it took you until episode 3, I want to remind you, right? To do that, or 4. But, two things there, Another feedback was of another friend who listened to it, was, ⁓ you know, one might think you guys have an alcohol problem, which... Marc Winter (02:56) Yes, dude, and it's a horrible coincidence. Paul Fattinger (03:12) Okay, alright. We could actually do a podcast on that. But, know, more importantly, that might already be a bridge to today's Anytime, just not now. But it might be actually a nice segue to our topic today, right? That I've had a really, really good week, past week in the south of Austria by the lakes, which was like the peak prime vacation week is mid August. So lots of friends were there and I wouldn't say I was on the bender, but I Marc Winter (03:22) I can stop anytime, anytime. Yeah, it's a... Mm. Mm. Paul Fattinger (03:44) I was out every night, know, and you have a glass of sweet wine and so on and so on. So I thought I really keep it sober now for a few days at least. And I am sticking to this grape juice that I actually got from my kids. And it is grape juice. It just kind of misses the most important piece of the grape juice that is then going into fermentation and, you know, produce alcohol. So here we go. Marc Winter (04:03) The There's a whole moral question about giving your kids grape juice out of what looks like a wine bottle. But we can save that for another time. Yeah, early priming. Yeah. Well, I'm sponsored today by ⁓ actually an embarrassing. So I actually picked this up in our office fridge. And I thought it was a cocktail, but it's actually a non-alcoholic, parched agave cocktail called the Spiced Pinarita, which, ⁓ to be honest with you. Paul Fattinger (04:16) We call it early priming in Austria. It's like... Exactly. How about yourself? Is it? Mm-hmm. Marc Winter (04:41) Take another sip. Not bad. You know, you can definitely see what's missing but this that's well spiced could be a margarita at some point Paul Fattinger (04:49) You know those guys are also making an alcohol-free champagne, sparkling wine. I think they all taste like grape juice with sparkling water. not sure about that. you do know, ⁓ I think the global wine production or consumption sank by almost 3 % just last year. Marc Winter (04:57) Mmm. Chris. Paul Fattinger (05:19) and people just drink less and less. maybe we should... ⁓ So guys, we're not having an alcohol problem, we just really like to see each other and sometimes we have a glass of wine and sometimes we don't. So we are actually adults. Marc Winter (05:30) Yeah, and if you think I have an alcohol problem, you can come tell me to my face in person. Anyway, listen, had a great, well I'll tell you in a sec, so had a great weekend, I need to tell you about my weekend, because I thought it was also pretty cool. So yeah, what a dick. So basically, I spent some time out in the North Fork of Long Island. My family has a beautiful vineyard there. We had our family, annual family. Paul Fattinger (05:38) Exactly. Anyways, what are we going to talk today about? I'm so sorry I didn't ask you, I'm so excited about today's ⁓ talking about. Marc Winter (06:00) Yeah, exactly, where does it start? We had our own family gathering there. We typically go out to the beach, know, we taste, we have drinks, lots of wine, we barbecue, we grill. My, actually my cousin went all the way out off the coast of ⁓ Montauk and ⁓ caught some huge, beautiful blue-eyed tuna, fresh. We brought that in and then we like pair that beautifully, grilled that. So it was quite the weekend. Funny enough, Paul Fattinger (06:20) wow! Amazing! ⁓ Yeah. Marc Winter (06:30) ⁓ I also got to see ⁓ someone ⁓ reach one of his life goals, which is that was my cousin Nabil. My cousin Nabil ⁓ has 10 years ago dedicated his life to the art of making pizza. For some reason he thought that like, yeah, yeah, yeah. He always thought that, you know what, we have this family winery. Few things go better ⁓ with wine than pizza. You know, it's his point of view to some degree. Like, yeah. Paul Fattinger (06:45) I remember that story. ⁓ Yeah, fair, yeah. Marc Winter (07:00) Why not? Of course. So, not only did decide he was gonna make his own pizza, but the guy is so insane, he's like, literally bought a 5,000 pound oven from Napoli that he had custom made and shipped over. Yes, he had it, and then he moved to now a physical location where he has his own pizzeria. And people now travel all over Long Island to grab it and try it, which is fucking great. It was amazing. Paul Fattinger (07:13) But doesn't he have that pizza truck? Wasn't that at the other place? ⁓ yeah. Wow. Marc Winter (07:30) So ⁓ shout out to anyone if you're in the North Fork of Long Island. Fiocha is the name. Extraordinary pizza, so I have to shout that out. And like them, they also started to create their non-alcoholic wine brand. ⁓ Cleverly titled De Nada, which is kind of funny. ⁓ Yeah, that's the only nice thing about it, you know, is the title and everything else. Paul Fattinger (07:30) Amazing. Awesome. Nice. I think it's a bit like... Okay, yeah. Marc Winter (07:57) Okay, anyway, so today's topic, which is the opposite of ⁓ experimenting with ⁓ non-alcoholic wine. So, Paul, I think we've all been there. We had a night off. We go out. We have a few drinks somewhere. We meet up with some of close friends from where we decide we are gonna step out into the wild and have a proper evening, right? Paul Fattinger (08:09) Mark. Okay. Marc Winter (08:26) And you go there, you might pick out your favorite club, your favorite bar, something from your youth, you've gone there, you enter, you walk in, and you realize, wait a second, everyone is like 10 years, did I step into a time machine? Or is everyone 10, 15 years younger? And the music suddenly sounds radically different. It's not Black Eyed Peas, it's totally different. And you have this sort of feeling of deep disorientation about this place that I've walked into, those walls, exactly. yeah. Never happened to you ever. you're thinking. Age discrimination, exactly. We're talking about stepping out now as a bunch of mid-40 years olds. Paul Fattinger (09:02) Never happened to Never happened to me. I have no idea what you're talking about. What are we talking about? Age discrimination? What is this? What is this podcast? Marc Winter (09:25) and what it's like to go out to nightlife in this moment. And, I mean, that's the title of this, yeah, yeah. Paul Fattinger (09:30) So it's Nightlife in Your Mid-40s. Is that the title of our podcast? Just, you know, when I edit this, okay, that's what I'm gonna put in the title. Guys Like Us, episode six, nightlife in the mid-40s. Okay, I'm just trying to get my head around this. Okay, okay, here we go. No, I've been there. I have, yes, yes, I have been there. I was there, yeah. Marc Winter (09:40) Good, not life in the before is. Thank you for that beautiful synthesis. Exactly, spot on. did that, got it, got it. So that little scenario that I just painted for you. Okay, great. Are you there often? Paul Fattinger (09:58) No, not anymore, I have to say. I gotta say. Marc Winter (10:00) Okay. Well, why don't you share with our listeners, when was the last time that you stayed out till 3, 4, 5 a.m.? Paul Fattinger (10:11) Last is quite a while ago. Probably a year ago. Almost a year ago. Yes, I remember a night almost a year ago. It was like three or four or something like this. Yeah, that's the last time. Marc Winter (10:18) Okay, a year ago, okay. Okay, and what were you doing? Take us to the... Paul Fattinger (10:27) ⁓ I have to think about this. I did, but I didn't think we would get to that evening so quickly. ⁓ No, I'm just kidding. It was actually a convolution of very interesting ⁓ events on that night. In fact, very interesting. ⁓ Marc Winter (10:32) I thought you were prepared for this, Popcat. ⁓ Okay. Okay. Paul Fattinger (10:57) It's gonna be a bit of a tangent here, okay? Guys, bear with me. So, a friend told me there's a brunch today, it's really cool, like a clubbing brunch, Marc Winter (10:59) Go for it. Go for Paul Fattinger (11:06) So I go there, know, four o'clock on a Saturday in the afternoon. Marc Winter (11:10) Okay. Okay. Paul Fattinger (11:11) I get to this place which is kind of posh and a bit tacky to be honest, right? In Vienna. And all the women are dressed up like Everyone was already trashed. 4pm. Marc Winter (11:20) Mm. Paul Fattinger (11:24) So we're there, you know, talking to people and that's the people blah blah blah. And everyone was like 10 years younger than I am, but you couldn't see it. It wasn't, I just saw they are at a different point of their lives than I am. what the fuck are people doing? You know, drunk on a Saturday afternoon in this place. Anyways. Marc Winter (11:39) Ha Paul Fattinger (11:42) I then had a date with one of my better friends, guy friends, to go to a And we actually went and we took two women that we met there and I knew and who also wanted to grab something for dinner so nothing loaded there out to this restaurant. And we had a very fun night just talking shit and then one of them said, I actually have to go to a 30th birthday party. So we crashed a 30th birthday party. ⁓ which then the age difference became more apparent because apparently it was notably 13 years at least and actually people were also looking at me and someone I think it was actually the birthday girl asked me what the fuck are you doing here I don't know you and I and that was 3 a.m. in the morning Marc Winter (12:27) Wow. Wow. Paul Fattinger (12:28) Yeah, fun. This birthday party was fun. It was a fun place, fun location, music, people dancing, all good. Restaurant was also fun, very posh, but it was a very odd night, I thought, actually. But that was the last time. Marc Winter (12:40) Okay, do you like partying with young people around you? Paul Fattinger (12:43) That's another tricky question, I think. But... I don't mind the... Yes and no. ⁓ Marc Winter (12:43) ⁓ You Okay, let me ask another way. If you could take a time machine and go back to the Barcelona when we first were going out and out in the clubs of Spain, would you step in there, would you think like, God, that's the place, like I'm ready for that kind of vibe and energy? Paul Fattinger (13:06) Yeah. Yeah, yeah, totally, I would do that. No, listen, I've been, but you know that, I mean, in the last three or four years, I think I went to clubs more times because, know... Marc Winter (13:16) Okay. Okay. Paul Fattinger (13:27) I had a partner who was younger than me and she loved going out, which was very age-appropriate for her. And in many occasions I thought what we're doing here is not age-appropriate for me. And I felt very stupid. Yes, not age-appropriate in the sense that I'm like, you know, I don't know. ⁓ Marc Winter (13:38) Really? ⁓ okay. Paul Fattinger (13:46) But I just, you know, just felt everyone around me is at least 10, 15 years younger, if not 20. And I felt very close to that moment in time where the bouncer asks you or tells you to wait outside for your child, you know, and not come in. That's kind of how close. Which I think is the nightmare of every mid 40 year old father, right? To be confused, not as a, you know, regular patron, but as, you know, someone picking up their kid. Marc Winter (14:15) Yes, dude. I work hard at avoiding that completely. Exactly. Paul Fattinger (14:20) So, okay, that's kind of my part, but what's yours? Your end of that story. Yeah. Marc Winter (14:25) The last time I out to five? Yeah, yeah. So I think it was last year in Berlin. I listen, I mean, we're going to get to like the going out abroad versus here in New York, because I think it's very different when you have your family. You know, when I go to Europe, I feel like I have an unfair advantage with my friends, especially my younger ones. know, a lot of them, they attempt to take me out, know, destroy me somewhere in some kind of club. Let's go, let's go. Can you keep up, et cetera? But I'm like, guys, I'm like on a six hour time difference. If you want to go to bed at 6 AM, that's fine. It's midnight for me. I can adjust later. Yeah, yeah, it's so unfair. no, was in with Berwyn with some good friends. Nothing too crazy. I missed a four or five somewhere. Paul Fattinger (14:59) Yeah, that's a good point. Marc Winter (15:09) which I'm told by the way is like age appropriate for someone my age versus some of the younger younger stuff because it's like great but that's a place where like you know Berlin is like for the profies you know it's not like yeah that's a whole that's a whole other kind of realm versus maybe yeah versus going out to say opium in Barcelona or something like this so you know this is a Paul Fattinger (15:20) Yeah, that's like, yeah. That's a different thing. That's a different thing, yeah. Yeah. Marc Winter (15:31) You can find your people and be comfortable there, which I think is, if that's still the thing that you're after, which is the next big kind of thing. Well, and so I'm curious, like, were you, I mean, you are absolutely a creature of the night, I think that's fair to say. Though as much as you love nature, I think you love a good evening, you love a great bar, you like, you know. ⁓ Paul Fattinger (15:39) Yes. Marc Winter (15:58) necessarily the nightclubs that come after that, you like being out in the evening. think you like ⁓ being around ⁓ places of good energy and excitement. ⁓ how, share with us a little bit about kind of your evolution of taste from that. Have you followed the kind of typical arc of like young kid clubbing out in Vienna and then in Spain and then slowing down a little bit and then going more into the, you know. bougie red wines and cocktails, etc. Paul Fattinger (16:30) I'm glad I'm not drinking just some wine today because otherwise I think someone would be knocking at my door if I started this because as you know, and think this is an interesting difference to the cultural and legal background you grew up with. In Austria, you started drinking at the age of 14 basically. Marc Winter (16:36) Ha ha ha Totally. That's true. Paul Fattinger (16:54) And I remember, or 15 at least, I the first kind of going out things were when I was at, you know, we'd go to, I don't know how to call it, like a dancing class when you're like 15, 16. So like, it's kind of, it's like where you go and you learn classic dance, you learn how to waltz and how to polka and how to cha-cha-cha and all this kind of shit. Marc Winter (17:08) What is a dancing class? ⁓ Yeah, yeah, I've been to those, like, you we don't really, that's not a standard thing to do. Paul Fattinger (17:19) So you go there basically three years, that year of high school when you are 16, or I was 15 I think. And then, and there was every Thursday, Wednesday, Tuesday, the fact that I know, there was, I think it was Friday. It was called Übungsabend, so where you go to practice. So you can tell your parents you're actually going to dance school. What we did is we went to this bar in the park that sold tequila shots for back then 20 shillings, is now a year or 40 or something. So we got completely hammered on tequila. So that was us going out in our teens, was going to bars. ⁓ getting hammered basically, crazily. And not so much clubs, there was music, yes, and then you basically went home at 11, 12. That was our going out in our teens. How was, I mean, for you guys in your teens was nothing. You went to the movies, to Olive Gardens. Marc Winter (18:02) Right. Miserable, no. No, yeah, we went to movies, we went to malls, I mean that's what basically, that's what the 80s film culture is all about. And then of course you get the coveted fake ID, right? And when you get that, it's 17 or 18, you know, they age you up. Then you look for college bars, yeah, yeah, yeah. Then you need that and then, look, I mean obviously I European parents, so was helpful, they introduced me to alcohol, know, roughly at the same time, they introduced me to, same methodology, you know. Paul Fattinger (18:28) And when you're in college, This podcast is really going in a completely wrong direction of trying to correct our views on the substance, which is a big problem. Marc Winter (18:43) I have no aspiration to correct anything. Yeah, However... Paul Fattinger (18:49) I did too. My twenties were actually quite lame, be honest. Up until the point ⁓ going out lame and not much. I think there some clubs in Vienna I really for the first time went to in my early thirties, which are like classics, absolute classics. ⁓ And then Barcelona came and that changed a lot for me, obviously. Marc Winter (19:12) Sure, sure, Got it. I was, you know, I was, I couldn't wait to go out as soon as I could. I think I idolized like, you know, the nostalgia, especially in New York they had like for the Studio 54 kind of era. And my dad had friends who used to go and reminisce about that, you know, after a few beers. And I'd be like, wow, there are places like that? Paul Fattinger (19:28) Mmm. Yeah, but that's so different than New York. mean, it's just, have so many things. Marc Winter (19:39) I know and I'm just, well I'm just telling you. So, you know, I was like so excited to go out to that. You I went to some of the bigger clubs and then college of course, a little Lamer. And then when I was living in Shanghai, I was out all the time. And I thought that was really interesting because, you know, whatever they were paying me, was worth a ton. It was the pay me nothing but back there, it's worth millions. And so was getting bottle service and things like that. But you know, I think the point is that the stamina to do it and... I had lot of friends, had friend circles that did that. And then, I think as you get a little bit older, a lot of those friends start to drop off, you know? And I think what's funny about going out, especially with leaders, like the friends that are willing to step out and go out that way, wendles to like, you know, had, you know, 15, now it's three, you know? And there's three for a reason. It's usually not a good one. Paul Fattinger (20:35) Yeah, yeah, but it was your reason, is the other question, but okay, that's... Marc Winter (20:36) You I'm going to share about my problems later. ⁓ Or my life hacks. You're going to say it, please. Paul Fattinger (20:48) Yeah, you know, if not, I would say in Vienna right now, I don't think I would have I wouldn't I would know who to call to go out longer, but they're all younger than I am by a fair bit and don't have families and so on. And these guys like to go out. But, you know, my kind of peer group, no, and I don't blame them. I mean, me neither. I'm not I'm not super keen on going out until three or four in the morning. Marc Winter (21:01) Right. Well... same and why not Paul Fattinger (21:18) Because I'm fucked the next day man. Not only the next day, the day after the next day and the day after the next next day. It takes me at least three days to recover. actually, it ever been so super fun between let's say 1.30 and 3, 4? Marc Winter (21:19) Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha think like... Paul Fattinger (21:40) I mean, ever yes, but... Marc Winter (21:43) I think you have to be on some pretty serious substances to make that time more palpable. And I agree with you. Like I think going home at a reasonable hour, but listen, then again, certain countries like Spain, the place only gets full with two. And you have. Paul Fattinger (22:02) Fair enough, but that's just basically a time difference thing. You just move the whole evening back, right? But take an evening where let's say you sit down, you you start going out at eight, you go to a bar, whatever you do and so on. And so that also changed, right? In the past, in my 20s, we didn't go out for dinner. We just went for drinks and you went to a bar and then when you do, you went to a club and so on. And so Marc Winter (22:07) Yeah, yeah, but. Paul Fattinger (22:25) probably start going up at eight so by then I mean you've been out drinking talking for hours and I kind of have the feeling I mean yes there are those nights we have a group of friends that just really works together you have fun conversations you have fun you jump around you forget everything around you super super fun but let's say out of ten that's maybe one I would say or two Marc Winter (22:47) Right. Right. Paul Fattinger (22:49) The other five or six, I'm like, you probably stayed out because you were checking out some girls or you were on some kind of hunt, right? For sure. I mean, I know people where that's 12 out of 10. And you know that too. You know exactly what I'm talking about. Marc Winter (22:59) Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's true. All right. Yeah, of course. Yeah. Paul Fattinger (23:10) And then the other ones you go home, basically. Or you just stick around because you kind of have to because of birth or something. It's kind of my feeling. Marc Winter (23:11) Mm. Mm. So I have a friend, that's fair. So I agree, and I wanna share with you my modern life hack, but it's funny, I have to share with our listeners. So have a friend, he's kind of famous in that life circles here in New York. And his name is Nigel, and he's known, yeah, he's known as Nigel of New York in some way, self-dequired Nigel of New York. The guy is gonna be 60 in two years. And Nigel, I mean, Paul Fattinger (23:32) I've heard about you talking about him. Marc Winter (23:46) I mean, look, he has no wife, no kids, and somehow is just floated through the New York kind of nightlife scene. The amazing thing is he has as much gray as I do, so we're just the same as nothing, like walks around and just struts, you know, and just has the kind of cops, but he always knows where to go home and when not to. And I've never seen, you know, balancers, they just opened the thing for him. And I said, Nigel, they quit. What, like aren't you tired of this shit? You know, at some point, like how much can you actually, yeah. This is what we're talking about. Like why would, who would be tired of this? He's like, yeah. He's like. Paul Fattinger (24:19) Yeah, and what's this say? Amazing! That's amazing! but, but, okay, but see, so, so he's one of the, the, the old guys you see when you go out that you don't feel sorry for, right? But, I mean, that's one out of a hundred, right? The other 99 you see, you're like, what the fuck is this guy doing here? And I really don't want to look like this guy because that looks really ridiculous. Marc Winter (24:41) Well, listen, look, the reality is, is older you get, right, if you're actually going hunting and you're picking up women, that's the point of your nightlife, right? You're going to hotel bars and staying there, you know? Or bougie, yeah, yeah, and you end up paying, or whatever, right? Or you're going to bougie kind of members only clubs and you're probably paying there too for something ridiculous if that's what you need. But. ⁓ Paul Fattinger (24:54) You're gonna end up paying usually. Marc Winter (25:06) But yeah, think also, look, New York offers the venues enough where you can go out, and I think this is a little bit where I was gonna go take our conversation. Because I actually think, very much, let's say, ⁓ the video game industry or others, are things that are fun that you're supposed to age out of. like certain generation have refused to do so, right? And say, why would we do that? Like it's been fun, it's joyful, right? It ⁓ fills us up. Like we can just do it differently. And hence what I've noticed, like the most glorious ⁓ invention for nightlife I think right now is the day party, which is, especially in summer, which I think solves everything. A great day party, you know, Paul Fattinger (25:52) Mm. Marc Winter (25:59) starts at 4 p.m. and ends at midnight. You're done. Perfect. Totally reasonable time to go to bed. Paul Fattinger (26:04) It's amazing, man. know. I fully agree. Beach clubs, to me, that's the absolute best. Great views. Everything's awesome. You know, you can jump in the pool. 100 % agree. 100 % agree. And to be fair, also Vienna offers events that are age-appropriate, right? All these, you know, there is one in every... It's actually tonight and it's a beautiful night, which is like Techno Cafe, you know, every Tuesday night in summer. Marc Winter (26:09) Yeah, yeah, I never want to go like... Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ Paul Fattinger (26:31) It's really super mixed, you don't feel out of place at all. It's a really nice after work. There's another one on Wednesdays, et cetera, et cetera. Where you can also go with friends up until 11, 12, then it gets a little bit more dancey and fun. Never stayed that long actually, because to me it's just fun to be there in the beginning and can have some food there. It's a super nice event. I just personally prefer... You know, if I go somewhere, I want to go with people that I know. And if I want to do that, I'd rather sit somewhere where I eat well and I drink well and I can have a conversation. mean, I'm kind of, I'm kind of got boring like that. It's a different thing if you go to a certain DJ and you really want to go out and dance and do things like this, but you're going to have the crowd as well. If you have the crowd that is more the chatty crowd, the talkative crowd, why go to kind of a clubbing thing where you are standing, you get shitty drinks, you have to line up at the bar. It's all an inconvenience. Yeah, you're there. Obviously there's the atmosphere and all, but I guess I'm old and boring. I don't know. What do you think? Marc Winter (27:20) Hmm. No, well, you're taking the conversation kind of where I wanted to go. Look, we met each other when we first met each other, and we were going out to the clubs all the time. I I still remember how you would always dance with your arm raised every time something would come. It's a suit on, whatever the fuck. exactly. So I mean, you knew how to go out and probably still do. I think. Paul Fattinger (28:02) Yeah. Marc Winter (28:10) I get fueled up by two things. One is I think that three times or four times a year I need a proper night. And I call it once a quarter. So just to like cut loose, listen to some great sounds and beats, and it's not a shitty mainstream club, you where you get the wristband and the lines and stuff. But like an experience where you can. have a good time and going out usually involves dancing or listening to music. That's something that's deeply personal to me, I love that. And honestly, I also like being surrounded by younger people that are not, least assuming they're not trashy. Like people that like good tunes, et cetera. I think I get awesome energy from that youth, you know? Paul Fattinger (28:54) But listen, know, at our age you have to define younger because you can hang out with people that are 21 that are almost 25 years younger than you are or people that are in their mid-30s. Yes. You're welcome. Marc Winter (29:01) Thank you for that inconvenient fact. Yeah, thank you for that inconvenient fact. Yeah, I was gonna say exactly I Mean late, you know late 20s mid like early 30s fine, you know, like that's not a Paul Fattinger (29:15) I also agree that is, I also don't feel, you know, especially thirties, I feel totally at home. Yeah. And in fact, you know, more probably than in the 45 to 50 bracket, because most of the people I know in that bracket are, let's face it, less fun than I am. So, yeah. Or more responsible. I don't know. Marc Winter (29:21) Yeah, yeah. Yeah, they're also like far more unattractive. You don't want to look back. don't want look... Okay. Paul Fattinger (29:42) No, no, no, not saying, I don't want to edge discriminate here. I'm like, absolutely not. But so yes, but you know, when you asked me before, it's like when you go in a club and you know there are clubs in Vienna, then you go and actually... a friend of mine did his 50th birthday there a year or two ago, which is a club where 18, 19 year olds go. And it was really fun to do. It was fun. And his kids were with him and it was super fun actually. It was kind of like a throwback because his club's also been around for 30 years. That's what I mean. You go in the club like this and the kids are in the beginning 20s. I think that's where I'm drawing the line. And you also kind of stick out. Marc Winter (30:01) Okay, that's ⁓ 100%. Paul Fattinger (30:21) If you are in an establishment that is somewhere between late 20s and late 30s, you don't really stick out. Marc Winter (30:28) I would like to point out any club where Leonardo DiCaprio can find his next girlfriend is something you should be walking out of right away. He cuts off the ladies at 25. Paul Fattinger (30:40) Yeah, no, I agree with you. I was just thinking of, you know, you know. Marc Winter (30:42) It's like, a second. Yeah, Paul Fattinger (30:46) If he goes there, maybe it's not a bad place to go, you know. Just to have a look, you know. Just to have a look. so yeah. But also Barcelona, I I mean, we've always had this great thing, I remember really well. I went for a nap, usually at seven, then I woke up at nine p.m. Then it's really hard to kind of wake up at nine p.m. and go out. You have to get a shower and then you go down to town. then, we were about to meet for dinner at 10. By the time the first people showed up after me, because I was there at 10, it was 10.30. By the time we had mains, it was 12. Marc Winter (31:09) Brutal. Paul Fattinger (31:25) fun part of the evening though, remember? And then we would go out because it was like, you know, one by the time we got to Berlin, so yeah let's have another drink and then go to a club and the best nights were, you know, remember in the second half of the year, second part of the NBA, when we went to the club always next to Opium, what was it called, they also closed at four. Marc Winter (31:43) yeah, yeah that was a good one. I forgot what it's called. Paul Fattinger (31:46) Me too, but that was great also because it closed at four and we went home. was fantastic. That was an easy night out, you know. Very reasonable. You know, when I thought about this topic, I want to ask you, what was your craziest night out ever? Marc Winter (31:53) a reasonable time to, yeah, exactly. I hate that you're asking this. No, no. Because it's going to get me into... I would say, I mean, I've had many, many, But I think, you know, the... Probably most of them are in Berlin, I would think. I mean, the New York... Paul Fattinger (32:05) Because you wanted to ask it or because it's gonna get you into trouble. Marc Winter (32:28) In New York, we've had a, basically New York's had a decent after party scene. And the thing is, I've been with my wife, Vera, a long time, and Vera does this thing which is really annoying, is that at night she just picks up people and friends, and then you're dancing, and then she's like, hey, here's my friend Charlie. And I'm like, my god, I have to meet this person. But then sometimes then you get. Paul Fattinger (32:45) Hmm. Yeah. Marc Winter (32:56) like invited or swept up into like kind of a rolling, what I'll call a movable feast, you know, of one party to the next to the next. And yeah, that's a blast. And of course you're seeing the sunrise and many times over. But I've never like done a, like I've never stayed awake for 24 hours or anything crazy like that, you know. Like I've done the, I've been close, but like, you know, it's. Paul Fattinger (33:03) That's fun. Hmm. Marc Winter (33:26) But I think, without getting into sordid details, I think the proper nights are the movable feasts. And I've had a lot of those. It's hard to single out. Paul Fattinger (33:36) The proper nights are the ones, if I think about it, are the ones you don't expect. I think there's two things. First, what you said before, going out every quarter. I don't think I have been in a year, so maybe we should do that soon. ⁓ And I feel like in our 30s, these were the stag nights. We the really good nights out. I they were amazing. I'm not going to say anything about them, but they were all fun. Marc Winter (33:41) Yeah, totally. Yeah. Yep. Paul Fattinger (34:03) And yes, they get less and less and it's nice sometimes to do this. But the most fun ones are almost the ones that you don't expect to happen. Marc Winter (34:12) Yes. Paul Fattinger (34:12) And so, and an example of this, and I had to think about this was when I lived in Japan, about 20, exactly, pretty much exactly 20 years ago, I had a good friend there who was called, I think, I don't remember, he was Danish, he was called Martin, Martin Holtan. He's a fun guy. A couple years older than I was. And like one evening we said, let's go out for some yakitori, right? Just some yakitori. So we go to a yakitori bar, chicken on a fucking stick. We go to typical yakitori bar, Marc Winter (34:34) Okay? Yeah, yeah. Chicken on a stick. Paul Fattinger (34:42) And they have all these Japanese things. It has said nothing in English, no one. So we had to release hand language, sign language, show the guy what we want and the guy was like hitting on his chest. It was like great, this chicken breast, guy. In the end it was a skewer of chicken hearts. So that's how it started, right? So then we went to Ropongi Hills and we ran into some Danish guys because it was this huge Danish community and they had lots of beers and then we kind of walked with them to the next bar, which was kind of a karaoke bar. Marc Winter (34:59) Yeah. Paul Fattinger (35:12) where like women started to massage your back while they poured your beer and I was like fuck this place. Also I was a student, couldn't afford this. So in the end I remember that that bar cost us 100 euros each and I was broke. That was my budget for the month basically. Then we went on to a wrap joint like somewhere in the basement and by the time we got out it was eight o'clock in the morning and like all these Japanese people were running across the sidewalk with their bags. I didn't have a phone because we only had one phone, me and my girlfriend back Marc Winter (35:37) you Hahaha Paul Fattinger (35:48) then, like a pink docomophone. So I had no way of calling her. So I went back to university, put myself on the park bench and fell asleep there at 8.30 in the morning up until when my girlfriend kind of woke me up because she found me on the park bench. Marc Winter (35:49) wow. Hilarious. Paul Fattinger (36:08) And that was one of the most hilarious evenings. wasn't, you know, crazy, but it just unfolded into something like this. And I think this is, this element of surprise is something I love. Marc Winter (36:15) Hey, look, totally. No, and it actually reminds me of, not to swap in Tokyo, but I was actually, a lot of business there for two and a half years. And I remember with a colleague who's now become a really good friend, we ended up, similar thing, drinks to restaurant to more drinks, et cetera, and then somehow we ended up in this S &M bar. We didn't really know it was an essay. And our hands were tied, you know, in those Japanese knots up to the, you know, across the pole. Some people were feeding us shots. Someone wanted to put a ball in my mouth. said, fuck that, then I got whipped. The whole thing was just bananas. know? Paul Fattinger (36:37) You Marc Winter (37:01) But now that we've established, actually are bona fides. Paul Fattinger (37:05) 38 minutes into the podcast. So can we somehow out of our experiences distill something useful for our two and a half listeners? Actually, it's more. I checked the stats, you know, it's almost double digit. Marc Winter (37:18) Well, I actually think... Listen. good. Well, I actually think, you know, well, we haven't landed. And I guess we kind of hinted at how it's changed. Yes. But what your most ideal one is now. So you said you're good meals, et cetera. How would you end your evening after your fabulous, you know, Viennese schnitzel and, you know, bottle of Riesling? Where is Paul going next? Paul Fattinger (37:51) I actually like to go to bars. Barcelona really opened my view to bars. I think also that time, like 15, 20 years ago, there wasn't the bar scene, the really nice bar scene in Vienna just started to come around. And now I think it's pretty okay. And there some nice bars and I like going to bars. It's nice. Some music, you can sit, talk to each other, have a few drinks, go home and one. I don't need to go. My point is a bit saying, don't need to go to your regular Friday night clubbing. Marc Winter (38:26) No, I think we've already established that. Paul Fattinger (38:29) That's scratched, yeah. Unless there's a super DJ that you tell me about that I've never heard of and I'm like, okay, I'm gonna tag along with Mark because it's exactly, for sure, gonna be great. Marc Winter (38:38) Day parties. Yeah. Well, I've got two for you, so I agree. And I also want to share a little bit of an anecdote. So I agree. I agree, Bill. I prefer actually piano bars are amazing in the evening. Like a great piano bar with wonderful cocktails or a jazz club. That's just a light enough jazz that you can still stay up through the front. Yeah. Paul Fattinger (38:58) I was about to say that Jazz Club, remember? Where I went with you and Vera after that amazing restaurant and I was a bit... ...Jet-legged. Let's put it like this. Marc Winter (39:05) Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But you were staying present during the guitar solo. I these are amazing kinds of things to do. Yeah. You know, there's another type that I love. ⁓ It's called the dive bar. And a dive bar is an absolute New York institution. These are filthy places. These are places that open up. Paul Fattinger (39:11) ⁓ man, that was unreal, Take the sake place you brought me. Marc Winter (39:26) Well, yeah, it's more like really old, full of drunks. Yeah, yeah, drunks, drunks, like, yeah, yeah, you must have these knifers, yeah, exactly. So funny enough, I was in one last week, a great one called the International Bar of the East Village, and the reason why we ended up there, Vera and I went out for dinner, and we, as usual, because, you know, Paul Fattinger (39:32) Filthy. Yeah, we have plenty of those here. Marc Winter (39:52) It was parents of two kids. We had dinner at 5.30. We got it at 7.30. It started to rain, pour. So we said, you know what? Why don't we just sneak into this bar? And so I want you to imagine this, you guys to imagine this. This bar, it's a little tiny, has a big U shape. One of my favorite bars, Horseshoe Bar, they call it. And the guy sitting behind there had this, he walked in and it looked like this old kind of Western movie with the old beer lights and this kind of stuff. It smelled of beer being on the floors and this kind of shit. And whiskey. And you just kind of walk in there, you sit there, you're like, this place has atmosphere and soul, you know? And he looks at the bartender and he was weighed about, without exaggeration, I'd say 150 kilos. Giant man, you know, just, ah. Paul Fattinger (40:19) Hmm. Marc Winter (40:41) And I said, hey man, how are you? He was like, I'm okay, it's 7.30. I've got half hour before it's over. It's the longest half hour of the night. And I said, okay. And I said, well, what time do you open this place, right? He's like, well, we open up at 10 a.m. I said, 10 a.m.? He's like, yeah, there's a line out the door at 10 a.m. was like, people need their medicine. We used to open up at 8 a.m., but they all died. Paul Fattinger (41:04) That reminds me... Yeah, sorry, go ahead. I'm telld. Marc Winter (41:08) And then, they all died. then, in walked every fucking character. was like, you know, we this American show called Cheers, like the modern version, just walking in in order. And Vera and I just had to stay. said, this is better than seeing a Broadway show. You know, this is, what was going on with the dialogue was amazing. It was the plumber, the garbage man, the out of work musician, it was great. Paul Fattinger (41:18) Actually, and I'm really... Yes. You know, it just reminded me of an Instagram reel I saw today of like someone cut it together like out of a podcast someone you're talking about longevity about the fact that actually alcohol in the morning is much better for you and it cuts over to a guy sitting there basically in his pajamas, drinking your whiskey saying I never go against my doctor's advice. So it's kind of... Marc Winter (42:00) Hey, Paul Fattinger (42:03) I'm gonna link it. This time I'm actually gonna link it. Last time we did it. That was a fun one. I thought of our conversation when I saw that. Marc Winter (42:06) Nice, Yeah, well it's fun. Well, as usual, we're convincing all our neighbors and listeners that we have a problem. But ⁓ that's the nature of the topic. It's called nightlife, going out. But what I think, if I had to impart some closing thoughts before we get to our segment, I think there is a necessity, I think, to being out in the world and to... ⁓ being around good cheer and people who want to unwind. And there's something about tapping into that energy that would changes a lot ⁓ the desire, like the experience changes, but the desire doesn't. And ⁓ I think we're both sort of avid, ⁓ in our own way, avid night life goers. just, you know. It gets harder, but you have to persist. ⁓ Paul Fattinger (43:07) Yes and let me maybe also share some final thoughts on mine and it's I mean, obviously excessive going out is not great. And I think there is a lot of about going out, about distracting yourself, about dopamine rushes, about, you know, trying to get away from it all. Marc Winter (43:22) Yeah. Paul Fattinger (43:25) I don't think works is gonna work well for anybody. It never worked well for me. If you're run away into a nightclub or into a bar from something that you should be dealing with, you know, in a sober conversation or in a sober sitting with yourself somewhere, you know, looking at a wall for half an hour and get this shit out of the system, that's for sure, you know, it's not a great choice to do that. And then I thought, but the evenings that are really nice, and that's why I think the best ones are also the ones that are evolving, ⁓ are not so much programmed. I'm not saying that there can't be nights that are nice when they're programmed in the sense, let's go to the DJ. But the ones that you know, evolve, what that also requires is that you are really present in what you're doing. I was just thinking of, you know, the other day a friend of mine was here from out of town. and we just went for a walk and I was like why don't we get a drink here you know we went into this super nice Italian place they always have great music a fantastic you know antipasti super cocktails and we stayed for a few hours and went to the next bar had an awesome conversation had fun looked at people talked to other people went home perfect but we were just there we were just fully there and I think that energy and and and that's something that is a beautiful thing and I think that's when it's when it's Marc Winter (44:40) Mm. Mm. Mm. Hmm. Hmm Paul Fattinger (44:51) healthy and nice and fun but it's also a little bit of a magnet for a rush and an addiction if you want and something that's not always necessarily healthy I would say. Marc Winter (45:07) Okay, I wanna offer a build. think ⁓ I love that sentiment, actually, and I agree with it. I think there's something really interesting about the desire to be more present ⁓ as. you know, in this moment with our friends, et cetera, we had prioritized the choir to play so I could hear the person. We pick a spot where we can, you know, talk a little bit more about what we're experiencing, et cetera, et We wanna be there, you know, and knowing that that time is valuable. And I think also drawing off the energy of the place is also super important, you know, and like getting that, and it's the intersection of those two. It's just, that's the magic. And if you can engineer some, Paul Fattinger (45:35) Hmm. No, I think that too. Some things, right... And I'm saying, nature probably brings it out more sanely and more healthily, but hey, a good, fun, vibey place can also do that, can also bring you to the present. And I think that's good enough, Marc Winter (46:00) Yeah. I agree. I agree. And it's a good lesson, actually. Be more present and follow the winds of vibe. OK. ⁓ Let's close by going into our favorite segment, the Terminator and the idiots of the week. Exactly. It's better when you say it. Yeah. OK. I think so. Paul Fattinger (46:08) ⁓ Idiot of the week. Can you start for a change? Can you start for a change? Okay. Marc Winter (46:29) Can I start with the Terminator of the Week? So I, like a lot of people, have been deeply curious by AI. And I use it, I play with it, I think we all kind of experience it with those tools, and actually we draw on them to create this podcast. But I started to sign up for Section AI, which is Scott Galloway's little startup on building AI literacy. And I have to say, you know, Paul Fattinger (46:32) Yeah, absolutely. Marc Winter (46:59) As a tool designed to help guys like us, and I mean that, like senior executives who are, get familiar, to get up skilled in a tool and reduce fear and increase curiosity, if you will, it is a really smart and thoughtful kind of venture. So if you're curious about learning AI in more different dimensions, I think it's a service I can recommend and they're not supporting this podcast, but. Paul Fattinger (47:27) Awesome. need to do that. I can build on that. ⁓ because my idiot of the week was actually AI. No, and, know, and we also had it last time and it's okay though, but I'm actually usually having troubles with this because of my self-depreciating self. I like to think about myself as the idiot of the week and I don't want to call other people that, but in that case, it's so funny. mean, obviously they get better and better and I use it a lot actually to. Marc Winter (47:28) I was impressed by it. Hahaha! Paul Fattinger (47:57) Also, you know that I always feed AI our transcripts and ask them for feedback. And I did that last night. And then this morning I looked in the chat and this was gone. Marc Winter (48:02) Sure, sure, sure, Yes. Paul Fattinger (48:10) And, and so sometimes I was just laughing and I got really pissed, but sometimes those AI models are a bit like really, you know, dumb or almost schizophrenic young employees, right? Sometimes they do something absolutely unbelievable. And the next moment they're doing something so dumb that you're like, how the fuck could you have had this idea to not remember that chat or to come up with something completely different? Or why do you repeat this? I've said this 15 million times. It's really funny because it's, it's true. exaggerated obviously, human wouldn't do that. But to me, I was laughing how brilliant those things can be and idiotic at the same time. Marc Winter (48:46) Mm. Mm. Fun. Well, my idiot of the week, I'm gonna tie this to the theme of nightlife. So, New York, ⁓ or in particular, Brooklyn, for the past several years, had this incredible venue called the Brooklyn Mirage. Slightly controversial, but it was kind of incredible. basically built a castle-like structure somewhere out around Williamsburg, east Williamsburg. And... ⁓ Paul Fattinger (48:51) You're an idiot. Marc Winter (49:15) Last year, they fired their CEO, they hired a new one, they made a big splashy younger guy, ⁓ had a huge kind of run-up. Ivan Gardner was the company name. They sign up insane names that were supposed to have a residency in Brooklyn, like basically trying to build an Ibiza kind of thing. Black Coffee, Peggy Goo, just giant, crazy names. And as you were tracking this, ⁓ the buildup of this kind of club, and By the way, just back it up, it was a little bit too mega for my taste, but they had big names and stuff like this. Nonetheless, it was a curious thing. In the build up to the release date in May, everyone was thinking, how the fuck is this club gonna open? We still see creams, what's happening? But they did this credible social media campaign, they're like, oh, just three days to opening. Everyone's like, really, totally? And sure enough, of course, didn't open on time. Didn't get the permits in time. And ⁓ last week, officially declared bankruptcy, you know, like world-class idiots. Paul Fattinger (50:20) But I love it that they were so disconnected that three days before they want to open, they're still running a social media campaign. It's like, what? Yeah, amazing. Marc Winter (50:25) They're still running a social media campaign blowing all the money, you know? I think they owe like black coffee like 1.4 million dollars because of this contract. Like, yeah, it's crazy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Go look it up, worth it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Paul Fattinger (50:34) Crazy man. Okay, that deserves an edit of the week. That deserves an edit of the week. my terminator of the week, and it actually could have been both from whatever perspective you want to see it. Marc Winter (50:47) You mean the idiot, right? Yeah. Paul Fattinger (50:49) could have also been needed or is Austrian Airlines who sold me a ticket to New York and back from Vienna for 411 euros at the current exchange rate that's not even 500 bucks so that's crazy I mean it is the cheapest ticket if I want to add a piece of luggage mark it costs me 70 euros one way Marc Winter (50:54) Ha ha ha! Paul Fattinger (51:09) So I'd rather spend those on good wine wherever we go. So we're not going to do that. Or I can find some at the airport. I can't go to Barcelona for that kind of money. It's totally nuts. So I'm happy for myself and yourself, obviously. Marc Winter (51:10) Whoa! Yes. No. Yeah, yeah. No, no, no. I know. Well, I'm so thrilled that you're coming and I'm so happy for our listeners because they're gonna hear some in-person recordings, which will be great. And I wanna close with a teaser, which is on your ride with on September 4th, right? So on September 5th, so on September 6th, yeah, good, okay, good. So on September 6th. Paul Fattinger (51:38) Fifth. Yeah, I arrived on the fifth. Friday. Marc Winter (51:45) I am gonna take Paul out on a day party in New York City and we're gonna report back on the experience and what's gonna happen exactly. Going out and... Yeah. What was I missing? Exactly. ⁓ Cheers. Take care. Bye. Paul Fattinger (51:51) Yes! ⁓ We're gonna re-record this episode, we're gonna do a take two. It's like... Me? You have to go out. What was I missing? This was great. Thank you guys. Thanks for listening. Thanks. Ciao.