How can we get the ultimate superpower: to stop time! | Ep 41

Paul (00:05) Welcome to guys like us. If you're new to this podcast and it's almost impossible at episode 41, this is the podcast about the things that you start thinking about when you are in your prime, which some people also call midlife. You will hear stories about family leadership, relationships, friendships, fun nights out, in short, all the things that shaped us and continued to move us and in today's episode is something that really moves me at least and it's the passage of time. But before we get into this, your host today is, you know, my humble self, Paul, an entrepreneur, a father of three, ⁓ somebody who doesn't remember things and that's why time flies, right? That's a big problem. And a king of rabbit holes. And I'm joined by my good friend and co-host Mark calling in from New York. Marc (00:47) A Paul (01:00) How is it going? Marc (01:00) Hello, hello. I am an entrepreneur, ⁓ self-conceived artist, a parent of two, ⁓ cool husband too, I think my wife would say that, and ⁓ enjoying life today. God, it's so sunny in New York, it's amazing. Paul (01:19) God, that sounds awesome. Mark, this is fantastic. Today we are going to speak about the passage of time, but before we do that, a quick check in. It's sunny. It is noon in New York. How has it been going? How's your week? How are you? Marc (01:20) Yes. I can't believe, thank God it's Friday. ⁓ I am better today than I've ever been in a while. So it's been a closing of a very busy week, so thrilled. I look, you know I'm ready, you know the afternoon beer? One of the best beers in the world, you know? Yeah, usually happens around 2 p.m. Yeah, usually around 2 p.m. Paul (01:37) Who dat? Yeah, yeah, you're ready for that. So you have a meeting at 1pm, so you're not drinking right now, is that correct? Or are we not talking about this because you have a meeting at 1pm? Marc (01:59) That's correct. That's correct. I'm... No, is that... No, no, no, I'm sponsored by New York Water today, but it's gonna change. That's a lot of... Paul (02:09) I am sponsored, I am very happy to say again, finally, that I'm sponsored today by a very random, but about 2016 Rioja Red that I found. Marc (02:22) Do you know any of those bottles I've had? It's a well-known winery. What's it called? Cheers. Yeah, yeah. Paul (02:29) I opened it last night because I made a really nice steak and I thought okay fuck it and now I'm having another glass and it's might not this bottle might not survive this evening Marc (02:32) It is really nice. Yeah. It's not going to last exactly, or this podcast. Speaking of passage of time, that's a good 10 year vintage. Paul (02:46) Mmm, or this podcast exactly It is a pretty good 10 year vintage, you know. Hey listen, we've wanted to talk about this topic for a while. I never quite knew how to tackle it. And as always, the universe brought this topic onto our plate. Because I met a friend the other day and kept on talking and talking. the end he said, listen, we met about a year ago and you said something that I really remembered. And you said, you being me, that I had said I didn't want my Marc (03:06) Mm-hmm. Paul (03:22) 40s to go by as fast as my 30s did. And then a year later, this guy turns 40, so he's a bit younger than we are, and he's like, this sentence is burned into my brain ever since you said it. And I don't know what to do about it. And I wanted to ask you, you know, how is it actually going? Then I kind of reflected, fuck, I'm already in middle of my 40s. That went by quickly. And that got my head spinning and that got me thinking. And that's what I wanted to talk to you about today. Marc (03:26) Mm. Hahaha Mm-hmm ⁓ Paul (03:52) passage of time mark how is there how is that resonating with you Marc (03:52) I love it and it resonates a lot. I have to tell you, ⁓ from a very young age, I would say the age of five to maybe six, one of my earliest fantasies was the ability to stop time and slow it. part of that was because I just wanted to stop time. never, like the world just freezes and you can walk around for a while and hang out. ⁓ Paul (04:22) Mm. Marc (04:22) I've had evolutions of that dream since I was six. When I was six, it so I could go to the supermarket and eat all the chocolates my mom wouldn't let me eat. And then as I got older, was just more this desire just to pause and keep things in and get a little bit more time to reflect, which feels so hard to do these days. Paul (04:37) Hmm. It does, but when you think about time today and its passing, apart from the fact that you always wished you could play with time, stop it or fast forward or fast backward it, trust me, I also wish I could. I think everybody does. ⁓ How is it for you right now? Do you feel your 30s, for example, passed more quickly or slowly? Marc (04:54) stop it. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Paul (05:10) Or is, you know, has time accelerated or slowed down for you? What's the, what's the feeling? Marc (05:15) So I felt like actually my 30s, it's so interesting. And I wonder if it's because I had kids only in my 40s. So my 30s felt like they went forever. It was like one long, strange trip. It was awesome decade because I was building a career, spending my time, having fun, traveling the world, like building more practices. It felt like a long trip for me. And my 40s feel accelerated. Paul (05:33) Interesting, interesting. Even, I mean, let's pack the kids topic. was my, that was my, yeah, your forties are, mean, which are basically over. I mean, you're 46. Marc (05:45) Ugh. Fuck, ha, 45. Paul (05:52) Still, yeah. You got a few more months left. Not like five, six, six, half a year. Yeah, yeah. Okay, so your 40s seem to have passed faster than your 30s. Correct? And your 20s? Marc (06:00) Listen, we're gonna stop this podcast right now if you keep going like this. ⁓ Yeah, totally. I mean, if you can remember your 20s, good luck to you. I they were a blur, I mean, of delight. I mean, it was just, you know, I was an experience addict. You know, I think we were just, I mean, it basically started getting out of university, traveling the world and ending at a Saudi where I met you. And, you know, the blackout continued. Paul (06:30) Yeah. To me personally, mean my quote comes from somewhere, from the fact that I really felt that my 30s went by just like that. And maybe what you just said about kids has something to do with it because I had my first when I turned 33, exactly that summer. So that's quite a difference. I feel that my 20s is my longest decade. so far in my memory, yeah, yeah, by far, by far. I mean, if I compare it to my 30s, it feels like five times as long, it's insane. It is really, really crazy. And my 40s, ⁓ maybe I don't wanna admit this to myself yet. I haven't made up my mind. They went by quickly. To be fair, they went by quickly. Marc (07:03) Really? Well, I mean, COVID feels sorry for all of us. COVID was six years ago, like at the height of it, even five, you know, like when you think about just a timescale, a shared thing. Paul (07:32) Dude, yeah, yeah, that's, But that is an interesting one, Because how does that happen to us actually? And obviously we did, we guess we actually do some research sometimes for these episodes and so we did for this one. We did and we're doing more. And also one of the things that I found interesting is like things that you remember quite vividly, like maybe an experience in COVID that, you know, things that seem like they happened yesterday. Marc (07:51) And we're doing more. Paul (08:06) These are usually things that you remember lots of details of, right? And if you remember them so well and they feel like yesterday, obviously, you know, as it feels like yesterday, that was yesterday, it feels like the time in between has passed very quickly. Can you relate to that? Marc (08:10) Yes. Yeah, yeah. 100%, like it makes, because it was a shared experience that we all collectively think about and understood, agreed, yeah. Paul (08:24) Exactly. Yeah, there is something. And the other thing also, I the fact that we start thinking about this is a little bit of a midlife thing and what we talked about in the beginning. as you, I mean, the point about being the midlife is that you are the middle of your life. So every year you live longer is a year closer to the end of it. And, know, on the wrong side of it, you know, if you are going up the hill, that's fine. But going down the hill, it starts feeling differently. And I think that's why we. At least why I upset side, you know, not obsessing, but thinking about this time concept so much more. So I think that's one thing that psychologically, you're probably more afraid to, to miss something or you first, I don't know. Do you have the feeling now that time is more precious to you than it was 10, 15 years ago? Marc (09:13) 100%. And I actually, get, and I was actually, talking to Vera about this the other day, because I was, I think we talked over the weekend and I was very cranky. I think I was dead, right, for lack of sleep or whatever. But I get so upset and angry when I lose time. So. Paul (09:24) Mm. Mm. Marc (09:33) you know, the time I have to myself, the time I have for thinking, the time I, because it feels so precious because it's so allocated to pockets now, especially with kids. And then, you and I always knew this in my thirties, like, you know, I love the feeling of, turning on a video game on a sun Saturday or a Sunday, you know, and the, the burrs were cheering, right. It was just a waste of my time. I just wanted to like, you know, just Paul (09:52) Yeah, what a fucking waste of time, actually. Yeah. Marc (09:58) just hang out in shorts, wear a t-shirt, throw it on for little bit, play, and you realize like, like that, that is such a luxury right now, given like the, and the sense of purpose I think I feel more now, and that's why maybe the allocation of time feels so hard. Paul (10:17) Yeah. But hey, mean, listen, you, unfortunately you can't stop time. I mean, as you always wished, but what in your experience are things you do or you can do or you think that, make the clock tick a bit slower? Marc (10:32) Well, actually I was gonna ask you this. you just, you've been experimenting with psychedelics, right? Especially mushrooms and things like that. And when you've done your doses of mushrooms, have you experienced the meaninglessness of time like I have? Like I remember like on some trips, I would look at my watch and be like, oh, what time is it? And then I would like take my watch off. I was like, who cares? It doesn't matter. Paul (10:39) Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Marc (11:01) and the liberation somehow of being. Paul (11:04) Not so much of time. I experienced the meaninglessness of other things, of other conventions. But not so much. At least I don't recall the time one. But that's nice. What was it like? Marc (11:10) Yeah, yeah, ⁓ Well, it's such an amazing feeling. remember, it always happens on like a little, not a light trip, a little bit more, a little, no, not too heavy. And I remember like, you wait for it to come on and you're always excited about what's gonna happen, you have this anticipation and then when it kind of hits you, you just ride this wave and you're thinking about, especially on really nice trips, you're being present with yourself, you're being. Paul (11:30) Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, no, yeah, no. Marc (11:50) connected to nature, you're being connected to your friendships, you really feel the energy around the universe, you know? And I find it so interesting, the first thing I get rid of is my watch. ⁓ I think that's because, it's two reasons. One is because I'm realizing I'm too high to even really think about minutes and seconds, like who cares, right? But really, it's more about like, like. Paul (12:01) Mm. Hmm. Marc (12:19) I've stopped something like I'm here to be and be present and that's the gift. it's, Meditation is another one that people use, which is also really a good meditation. You know, we'll get you is a more. ⁓ Paul (12:26) That is interesting. That is super interesting. If it, mean, sorry. Yeah, because it gets you also more into the present moment. I think it's similar thing. I mean, I've full on agreed to the presence and I want to come back to that. And I just want to throw in a provocation, right? Maybe, you know, why you think time is meaningless when you are on shrooms is because you realize that everything else is in it. We're so much more than just, you know, so much more than our limited time on earth and that the universe and everything is connected. Marc (12:40) Right, right, that's right. It's a similar, right. Yeah. Paul (13:07) And all of a sudden time is abundance because everything else is abundance and you are abundance. And, you know, that's very... Marc (13:14) That's a cool thought, man. Someone's been spending a lot of time drinking having a shrew. Ladies and gentlemen, this is Paul Fatinger in his mid 40s. The professor has radically changed. What a fucking cool thought. See you in California. Paul (13:20) Yeah, bye, big you do I am... Notes to the producer. I am not in shrooms right now. ⁓ Yeah, but that's what I... I really think that actually the fact that we feel that there is such a hard limit coming up, really... Obviously, everything that is limited is more precious. And that was kind of my thought and ⁓ why I think when... You are in shrooms, you don't feel that limitation. Anyways, back to reality, the other thing you said I thought is very interesting as well, the presence one. Let's talk about presence. Marc (14:11) Yeah, please. Paul (14:13) I don't want to jump the gun, but I thought about all of these things. And to me, frankly, time is still going very quickly and I haven't found a way to stop it. And I'm now going to tell you also that I don't think it's possible for a few reasons. Number one, our brain as we age processes less things. So basically your frame rate reduces. So you're shooting 60 frames a second in your 20s and you're shooting 30 in your 40s. So here you go. Yeah, no, it's not like that, but it is. You process less detail. but that means by default, you know, it's cognitive decline and it is what it is. That's why also you remember, you know, a passage of time or a period of time as a kid much longer because you were actually, your brain has made more pictures. Marc (14:40) That explains a lot. No way, really? thank God. Yeah, yeah, totally. Paul (15:08) Number one. The other thing which is called, I think, Janet's theory or something is a theory from the 19th century, which I think is brilliant mathematically, right? So when you turn 20, your last decade was 50 % of your life. When you turn 30, your last decade was a third of your life. When you turn 40, it was 25%. When you turn 50, it was 20%. So the last decade obviously gets less and less percentage. So it always feels shorter. just logically. these are all the things. the third one, and that is something maybe that you can change, is that with routine, things go by, seem that they go, if you do the same shit day in, day out, basically, time flies. All right? And so that's kind of why I think that when you have kids and you kind of are forced a little bit into a routine, and I mean, let's face it, life is not boring. Marc (15:55) Of course. Of course. Paul (16:06) But life kind of has a routine and I think that's why it goes by a bit faster so having said all of this I Don't think we can stop the fast passage of time. We can only make the best out of it. That's kind of my conclusion Sorry jumping to it. Maybe Marc (16:19) Well, hold on. Okay, that's interesting. No, no, no, no, it's cool. Thanks for all the data and that's the scary science. I appreciate that. That's the shit I didn't want to hear on the front. I was hoping to have a good time today. But you know, how, I could tell exactly, Paul's going get very drunk on this. ⁓ But I'm thinking of like, how can you slow it is the thing that I'm really interested in. Paul (16:30) Yeah, there's some ways out of it, some ways out of it. I'm having a good time having my second glass of brioche. Okay. Marc (16:49) or make it feel slower. And I go back to, it comes down to intentions. I think you ⁓ nailed it on routine. I think those that adapt to routine are those that ⁓ are not, are sentencing themselves to the most boring version of life, right, that you can have, right? Because. Paul (17:09) I knew you were gonna hook into that one. I knew it, man. I was for a run before and I was thinking about this and I knew you were gonna sink your teeth into that one. Go ahead, Mike. I fully am with you though. No, no. Marc (17:11) What? No, it's just, but okay, I love being so predictable, but to me it's, but it comes to intention. There is a finite amount of time. How do you follow your curiosities to break things up? Experience as much as you can in the world and all of its diversities. And you have to want that. Otherwise I think, you know, The passage of time, we've all had work weeks, I've had several of these past few weeks, where it has been a routine. I'm working, I'm putting the kids to bed, I'm watching a series, okay, the series looks different, but it's the same series and I'm going to bed. Of course it feels like, how is it May already? It's because I've been doing the same shit for a month. The slowing is interesting, and that's the shifting up experiences and... Paul (18:00) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Marc (18:15) and challenge yourself that way. I find that really a cool mandate. Paul (18:20) And to put some science behind that, there is a retrospective paradox going on there in what you just said. Because what happens when we do something exciting is, we all read these books about dopamine and so on. dopamine gets into our system and that also makes our brain record more vividly and more often and more detailed. And that means actually we remember an experience with packed with new things with excitement as a longer stretch of time. All right. So so what you said, breaking the routine, doing something new, the fact that your thirties, which were packed with excitement because you lived it like your second one is, let's face it, you know, lucky bastard. ⁓ That's why. And that's why mine didn't, because I had three kids and I worked three jobs basically in those in those 10 years. ⁓ Marc (19:01) Yeah. With money. Right. Paul (19:19) And I think that there's a huge difference in that. Maybe there's less dopamine involved in my 30s than in yours. That's why yours seem longer. Go ahead. Yeah. Marc (19:25) Can I tell you something about the trade off, by the way? I appreciate the brain science. ⁓ I want to agree with your comment. My 30s were basically my 20s. I would say I would copy it that, but with money, so that makes all the difference. It was fucking great. But when I had kids at the 40s, ⁓ I knew there would be a trade off, right? Because I said, I know. I know. That's what I'm noticing. Paul (19:38) Yeah, I don't know. mean, please, please put some more. Put the finger into the wound. Yeah. Come on. It's only halfway in. Yeah. My 40s are my second 20s. Marc (19:54) This asshole here, sitting in his shorts, in the Polarix talking to me, like he's retired already. I got kicked in the face by my son again today. Yeah, I put it off, I put it off. I am literally keeping my fingers crossed that ⁓ I'm betting that children later in life is a life extension strategy. know, now your biology kind of adapts to... Paul (20:04) Manifestation is all manifestation. Marc (20:24) to keep you alive a little bit longer when you have little kids. So that's the goal. Paul (20:28) Yeah, no, I that's the goal. And I wasn't sure about the kids' influence on our perception of time. Because, you know, one could say... I discussed this with this friend. One could say that when you don't have them, you don't have a measure of time, right? I mean, it doesn't matter whether you're 32 or 38 and like you party all the time, you know, I'm just making a bit of fun. So you could almost say years blend into each other. Marc (20:52) Yeah. Yeah, that's fine. Paul (20:57) And then when you have kids, actually almost have a measuring stick because you also see how they grow up. So you kind of also see more vividly like the time goes by. But I'm not sure about this one. I'm more about, I think you have more novelty when you really enjoy your life. Maybe if you, maybe the worst thing is not having kids and living a boring life. That's how your time goes by super quickly. Yeah. Marc (21:21) it's that, well, God shame on you. Yeah, well, I mean, look, what's the phrase? The days are long, but the years are short when it comes to kids. ⁓ That's what they say. ⁓ Or someone told that to me. Yeah, kind of interesting. Paul (21:33) nice one. Nice one. Yeah. And that's not, I think you just summed up this ⁓ retrospective, prospective thing is that when things are actually going slowly ⁓ as they happen, ⁓ they seem to go fast as they have happened in the future when you're looking back. That's kind of interesting as well. Marc (21:53) Right. and sorry, we also, I think, as we're discovering kind of the theme of this one, at least for me, ⁓ we all want to figure out how to slow it, right? You and I, that's the thing. And so, outside of taking copious psychedelics on a weekend and... ⁓ Paul (22:05) Yes, clearly, I think clearly that's the mandate. Yeah, that's the goal. Marc (22:20) meditation to be present or shifting of experiences. Are there any kind of bits of counsel that you can have for us? Paul (22:32) You know, I kind of jumped to that conclusion before. don't think so. really think the present, let's start with the present thing. think that's super clear that I think in the past I have spent lots of my moments not being there, being rather, you know, mulling over something in the past, just thinking about something in the future. And if you don't do that, at least you're really enjoying the time you're having and you at least make sure that you are there. Marc (22:42) Hmm. Yeah. Paul (23:01) that's one thing. I don't think in hindsight that makes the time go by any slower though. That's my caveat to this, but at least you have used your time wisely. Marc (23:16) Mm-mm. Mm. I do, I do. And I want to bring up, I'm just debating whether not I want to bring something into this conversation. I think I do now. That does make sense, being present. ⁓ And I'll add one, if I can. Paul (23:17) Can you follow me? Does that make sense to you? Please. Marc (23:33) Intentions and ⁓ being super intentional about your time and why you know I used to say ⁓ Time is the ⁓ most expensive thing we have and the thing we give it most cheaply away, right and ⁓ And I thought like it'd be kind of interesting you know I Mentioned another podcast. You know I was watching this film the unbearable lightness of being and actually picked up the book Paul (23:49) Hmm, very true. Marc (24:03) last night to flip through it and start it. And the book opens with a really kind of interesting conflict with this, the philosopher Nietzsche put forward this idea of kind of this internal conflict. And what this is really, it's basically, it's a really fantastical scenario, but it's perplexed philosophers. So I'm gonna try it with you. You're towards the end of your life, a demon approaches you. Paul (24:23) Mm-hmm. Marc (24:31) And basically says, Paul, you're doomed to relive every moment of your life from the beginning to the end on repeat, from now to the end of time. And how you react to that scenario will determine how well lived your life has been, which sounds overly semistical. Balthazar, yeah. Well, first of all, that's great news. Paul (24:54) I would love that. Marc (24:59) That you love that. means that you have, that means that, that means that you, and candidly, like I've seen this in experience with you, but like the whole point is about you realizing your power and you've accepted the mistakes, the lessons, the highs, the lows, and you're willing to go through that again, you know? Versus those that are, would have a horrific reaction to that, you know? Or those that have. Paul (25:00) Yeah, it is. Marc (25:28) failed to make those, the choices that, or the learnings, right, that would give them the real power and confidence to do it. It's a weird thing to go to sleep to, but I thought about that a lot because I was like, God, of course, we all wanna do the repeat. Hopefully, you know, your answer, that leads to your, you make enough choices and surface enough learnings, that becomes your natural reaction, you know. ⁓ Paul (25:56) That's a nice one. Marc (25:58) to that philosophical kind of quandary. And so, it's funny, I got up today just thinking about that, was like, God, you're right, I need to be, every moment does count, but if I could just be a little more intentional, it slows things down. We know that, because it's a variety of experiences, but you can not just slow, but give greater meaning to your time. Paul (26:21) I fully agree. And I want to add something a little bit more practical that I discovered when I thought about this. also think that we that kind of doesn't it happen always a little bit in a rush when you say time flies because you you think of something that as we said before, right? You think of COVID that you remember so vividly because it shared experience. And then you think, man, that feels like yesterday. my God, time flies. And that's it. And then you go on, right? And what kind of stays in your head is, my God, time flies. But if you actually take a moment and then you think about everything that happened in between COVID and today, in your case, two kids, a new job, I mean, God knows you moved in COVID. Marc (27:13) Mm-hmm. Paul (27:14) Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, Marc (27:15) Mm-hmm. Paul (27:15) blah. So if you started listing all of the things, the trips, the meals, how many times I was in New York. It's crazy. So if you list all of this, then all of a sudden you're like, wow, there were a lot of things. And then when you think about how time flies, it doesn't feel flying as quickly anymore. And I don't think we take that time to actually reminisce, is that what you say? To actually... Marc (27:23) Yeah, I mean, it's crazy. Paul (27:44) You know, do that. So I think there is a point in keeping a diary and I'm not meaning a journal, although I'm a great fan of journaling, as you all know, but in kind of keeping those moments somewhere and remembering them, because it will also show you that lots of things have happened in this period of time. And that's what we all want. Right. What do you think about that? Marc (28:07) I think it's a really cool idea actually. it made me think, I once went on this retreat in the mountains and, here's the book, I was looking for this. audience, I'm holding up a big red book. And in it, I was journaling my life. It's the first time I've done that in all this time. I haven't looked at this fucking book in five years. But you're already me. Paul (28:16) Yeah, I remember. Marc (28:36) making me think, I look, mean, like I was really going for it, know, life stages, learnings, like trying to understand. I mean, the gift of it was, the gift of it was, you know, I felt so appreciative and gifted for already what was felt like a life well lived. But to remind yourself of that, it's a beautiful thing and it's really rich. You know what I mean? Paul (28:44) Here you go. I totally know what you mean. That's awesome. And it's actually the way to do it. And that's where journaling comes in, or to take pauses to write those things down, as opposed to shoot pictures so you can remember later. Because actually when you make pictures, and that's also, there was a study that if you make lots of pictures while an event happens, it makes you remember that event in a... that it happened in a much shorter period of time because you actually wasted it being on a camera and not in the moment. So what would actually help is sitting down afterwards and writing it down or having a photographer with you all the time to capture your life. That was my other thought of it. Although that also would be weird. yeah, interesting, man. So if we want to summarize all of this, how would you, what were your three takeaways? Marc (29:33) Totally. Paul (29:58) from our conversation up until now. Marc (29:59) Bye bye. Well, first of all, my first takeaway is my unfortunate cognitive decline, you motherfucker. I can't believe you talked that one up. But the take... He's always the king of inconvenient truths sometimes. No, it's... First of all, it's nice to know some people aren't like this, that the yearning to make time slow is important. Paul (30:09) Sorry about that. It's true though. Marc (30:28) tactical pieces ⁓ of being present, practicing presence, practicing intention, and the reflection of codification of whether it's the journaling or anything else to me feels like a really great tool ⁓ because the first, you are being in the moment, the second you are making choices, know, really critically, and the third, you're honoring those choices. Paul (31:02) that's beautiful. And I want to add the Mark dimension to this, and then it's four, is to add novelty deliberately. Yeah, no, and avoid the routines. And it's so funny because in all the optimization literature is all about routines and how to create habits. But actually, if you think about this, then you just become a robot and time flies. So who wants that? Marc (31:10) Yeah, please. Yeah, exactly. Paul (31:29) so add novelty travel, do whatever, try new recipes, restaurants, you know, with your kids, without your kids, whether you're parking without your partner, it doesn't really matter. Just spice it up a little bit. And, ⁓ I think time will stretch as well. Marc (31:43) Did I tell you, it's a great close, and did I tell this pod the Kurt Vonnegut story about buying an envelope? Paul (31:54) I don't think you have. Marc (31:55) All right, I'm going to close it with this because it's to emphasize what you're saying. This is great story. I'd actually presented in this keynote this week and went well, so I want to share it again. The great writer, Kurt Vonnegut, tells a story about going out to buy an envelope. And he says, his wife's like, why are you going out to buy an envelope? You know, I can order a hundred on Amazon like tomorrow, right? And he's like, I pretend not to hear her because when I go out, I'm going to have a hell of a good time buying that envelope. I'm going to see some hot babes. I'm gonna see a firetruck go by, I'm gonna give it a thumbs up, I'm gonna wave to the coffee girl, I'm gonna make small chat with the shopping clerk, it's gonna be amazing. And what the computer people don't realize, or don't wanna realize, is that they wanna take that away. And in the end, we're dancing animals. And that's what we're in here to do, is to dance. And if it's a routine, you're not dancing. That's all I gotta say. Paul (32:54) Man, that's amazing. I wanted to throw in some philosophers here because I did some research, but we said everything, these macro surrealists and Buddhists and Nietzsche and whoever ⁓ Seneca said on this. Man. Marc (33:04) I put a Nietzsche. We already did that. We're good. Paul (33:12) Awesome closing. Awesome closing. Marc (33:14) Yeah. Paul (33:14) hey before we go idiotic thing of the week and terminator of the week. What you got? You got something? Marc (33:22) Hmm. Man, the most idiotic thing I've been doing this week is the most idiotic thing I'm doing every week this seems to stay is like, hey, ⁓ let me go out and pretend I'm 20 again and come back and my kids again. Paul (33:40) Did you... Dude, you just told me this story fucking like, not even a week ago. Marc (33:45) It keeps happening. People keep asking me to go out and I do it because for networking, ⁓ You know what it is? It's willful optimism. I'm insane. I'm going insane. Willful optimism. Yeah, I know, I know. What about you? Paul (33:48) because dude, I would be dead. I would be dead. Okay, that is idiotic. All right, all right, all right. Okay. I love it though. I love it. You know, yeah. My most idiotic thing, which could also be, is that as you said, I'm calling in, I'm a very lucky guy. And I think it's almost like a little terminal of the week that I allowed myself to take a break for five, six days to, you know, go somewhere, which is not Vienna, and find some space to really think what I do next in my professional life. Because I have so many ideas in my head and I have the feeling I need to focus and find a straight path. So the past two days, my list of ideas has grown crazily. So that's the idiotic thing. So I come here, I walk around, I see nature, and I have like 52 more ideas. I guess... Marc (34:25) Mm. Mm. Paul (34:46) If we had designed a workshop, is exactly what you do to open up to then close down. But right now my head is exploding even more. So I have a few more days left, so I'm hoping it's gonna, is gonna. Yeah, funneled down a little bit. But anyways, yeah. So that's been, that's kind of the, if that happens like this, I come back with more ideas and more things to do than I left, that would be idiotic. Let's see. The verdict is still out. Marc (35:00) Okay. All right, my Terminator of the week is me. And ⁓ the reason why I'm doing that is I'm giving really good political advice to people in the workplace these days. Like, I've got to get myself on the back. This could be another career for me. ⁓ for example, well, it's just, well, I know, I just toned it down. But ⁓ it's just funny. Paul (35:26) Are you? I love the humbleness too. Marc (35:41) For example, my wife is German, and she's like, wow, I feel like the COO launched a whole new AI initiative. She's all into product managing and coding and vibe coding, it's kicking ass. And she's like, wow, I feel like I work for a whole new company. And I was like, you should let the C suite know about that, right? Just pop them a note. She's like, no, I couldn't. I was like, sure enough she does. And now she's sitting there with the. the season meeting, private conversations. There are three other versions of that where I'm just doing simple little advice to do that. Paul (36:17) Man, that's great. You also gave me advice. Let's see how that works out. We're gonna talk about this. No, you did, you did, you did. You could be on a roll. Let's see, maybe it breaks with me. I also, you I was laughing because I always also almost gave myself the Terminator of the week because I decided to come here. But then I actually went to a little event this afternoon here and I'm on an island called Ibiza. Marc (36:21) yeah, it's true. yeah, but I could be on a roll. I could be on a roll. So. Paul (36:44) Again, and there is a small farm here. Marc (36:47) I was wondering when you were going to come clean on that. It's minute 37. Dropped off. Paul (36:50) I'm gonna come clean at the end of the episode when everyone has already checked out. ⁓ Fuck you. Anyways, so there is a super cute farm that we went to with the kids in over Easter also. There's a one and a half hectares and they grow everything like flowers and strawberries. It's a very hippie shit, but they also like serve lots of great restaurants here. And I went past there today and or yesterday to buy some fruit and vegetables. Marc (37:16) Mm. Paul (37:21) And then they invited me because it's first of May today and they have the do payas for, you know, everybody who helps them and blah, blah, blah, and customers and whatever. So I dropped by and it was such a typically pizza thing in a way because it was very hippie and in the garden, everyone sitting around and drinking wine, having paya. But also I thought it was very beautiful to see people that are extremely passionate about something, living on a shoestring, somehow holding a farm together, you know, having people from everywhere, trying to help them, trying to kind of. revive a concept from the ages where, you know, a village had to get it to keep places up. And I thought that's really beautiful. It's really nice. Yeah. This was fun. Marc (37:59) That's cool. Wow. Take care. Big hug, Talk soon. Paul (38:04) Take care man.