The leap: Marc is quitting his job | Ep 28

Marc (00:13) Hello, welcome to guys like us episode 28 If you're a new to this podcast Yeah, it's a podcast about the things you started thinking about when you're in and we got to admit it midlife So you'll hear stories about family leadership relationships fun nights out good wine and in short the things that shaped us and continue to move us and Hopefully there's something for you in there as well Paul Fattinger (00:16) you Here we go, buddy. Marc (00:41) Hello, this is Mark dialing in from New York City and I'm here to welcome Paul who's in a fucking mountain it looks like somewhere like where are you? Paul Fattinger (00:52) I look like I'm in a car, which I am. And I am in my car on a mountain, on a skiing trip with my kids. About 1500 meters in altitude high. It's minus seven degrees outside, but my nice electric car is heating my ass quite nicely through the heated seats. And I'm having a glass of red wine, so I can't complain. Cheers. Marc (00:56) Yeah. Mmm. ⁓ So you're in your car with a glass of red wine and I should say for our ⁓ listeners Paul's wearing kind of a sweat shirt that from the distance it looks like ⁓ a netted shirt he would just walked out of Begheim or something, know, but ⁓ you look good. Paul Fattinger (01:32) No, man, it's like it's a wool jumper. It's a winter, it's my skin jumper. But thank you for sharing your fantasy about my net shirt, you know. Marc (01:37) The pattern is confusing, that's all. And ⁓ what are you drinking exactly? Paul Fattinger (01:47) What are you having? I actually, it's called Ried Hochacke. I brought it from Vienna. What is it? New York's finest? Marc (01:49) I'm drinking New York's finest. ⁓ ⁓ Vitov, okay, no, yeah, New York's finest, New York's finest is tap water, unfortunately. You never heard us say that? No, we're supposed to have great water because it comes from the Catskills. Paul Fattinger (02:00) No, I have, but I think I just pushed this away from my memory because I think it's just making sense. But hey, listen, tell me how is your week been? Marc (02:13) You know, it's been a huge week and actually, you know, this it's funny. I was going to use a metaphor of mountaintops because it's been a week of the big leap, you know, for me, I am resigned from my job to start something new with a dear friend and partner of mine, the firm, um, to create a, well, we're calling now a leadership firm for the AIR, which is exciting. And going through all the roller coasters of emotions from high peaks to a few lows, nothing really that low, just more excitement, to really getting deep in the psychology of risk, if you will, and at the same time ⁓ leading with some confidence. So it's been, as you can imagine, kind of intense. I think I had to cancel a couple meetings with you because I was so deep in it. Paul Fattinger (03:05) Man, that's so many things. So you quit your job, you're starting something new, and I guess we're gonna talk about this today. Marc (03:11) Correct. We are. Yeah, that's right. Paul Fattinger (03:16) That is nice, man. I like that. I like that. You know, yes, you've canceled a few meetings with me, which is why you're finding me sitting in the fucking car on a fucking mountain with with my microphone. I want to add just to just to, you know, show you guys my commitment to this. And I actually met a really nice guy. No, no. Trust me, man. Marc (03:24) Ha ha ha ha! Listen if a police officer if at least if a police officer comes and knocks on your door, this would be the best Paul Fattinger (03:42) If a police officer came up here, I would be the least of his problems. Okay. So that's, that's for sure. So I think there's a few upper ski bars around that there's more to get, but I really didn't, to be honest, it's one of the first times I really didn't feel like it because I've been here since Friday. It's been amazing. Uh, only that two of my three kids, uh, came up with something. So they had fever today, two of them out. Marc (03:47) Yeah. Good. Good. Paul Fattinger (04:13) And that's obviously sucks. I'm very grateful for my parents who are here and and yeah, anyway, so that's been my day and and you know, I've been Usually the last few nights I was in bed by now because this is how draining ski holidays with kids is so right now I really didn't I really didn't see myself I actually thought I would do this behind the desk of the reception which in you know turned out to be a no-go So I then resort to my car ⁓ Marc (04:39) This is already the best location ever. I love it. Come on. This is commitment. ⁓ Paul Fattinger (04:44) that has resorted to my car and I'm also dumping all the feedback I got from a very nice guy I met last week. Shout out to you Alex and you know he's a professional at this and he told me to use a better camera which obviously didn't work this time and do other things better and we're trying buddy we're trying so let us know and and he also told me this thing if you guys have any you know thing to tell us like feedback or the things we should talk about or not be talking about you should write to us. Marc (04:55) Yeah, yeah. Paul Fattinger (05:13) However, he told me, you you guys don't have an email address, so you can all write me or write us, but write me because Mark's never gonna answer, you know, under paul.fattinger, F-A-T-T-I-N-G-E-R, at gmail.com. We're working on a better email address, okay? So that's that for now. So it's all yours. Yeah, so that's my, yeah, you're welcome, Just trying to incorporate feedback, Marc (05:29) That's good, yeah. Good, thank you for that. Well, today's topic, which is great, by the way, I love that. I think we're in constant sense of self-improvement, that's for sure. So listen, this is a funny one because I know ⁓ normally we have a bigger topic to kind of riff on big time. I thought actually I just talked a little bit about AIR, some moves. Our last episode was very much on AI and how we integrated into our lives. Paul Fattinger (05:54) Big enough, man. And maybe that's too big actually, you know, what do we know? Fact that. Marc (06:03) Yeah, it was like kind of like a big giant. What do we know? I felt so confident in our topic last week that I decided fuck it. I'm launching a business about it. Yeah. Let's talk about taking a risk. But I, know, a lot of people have been asking me, you know, and Paul Fattinger (06:10) Well, yeah, yeah, let's talk about taking a risk there. Marc (06:26) You and I, we've been great friends for a long time. So we all know that, you know, I've always had a bit of existential craving and some appetite to say, Hey, what would be, what should I do with all these experiences that I've had? I had kind of a really cool and interesting career. And do I stick with it? Do I move on? Et cetera. And, know, it's funny as we're reading on to our reading, as, as, as I was reading our intro, you know, there, there's little tongue in cheek line of how we hate to admit that we're midlife, but ⁓ I did have this feeling, was like, gosh, you what's the biggest driver of just moving? It's just a now or never feeling, you know, and it's a conflation of a lot of different things. It's the feeling of, hey, there's this massive shift happening in work and technology and leadership that I think I could be helpful in. But then there's also, why don't I just really own it? lean in and try to build something that, ⁓ you know, along with the partner that we could have ourselves and take on that risk, but have all the flexibility and the amazing choices to kind of move on. So that was, ⁓ a little bit behind it and it's taken a long time, but now that I thought I would share the feeling of what it means to be free at the moment because I'm experiencing my last day literally today is my last day and it feels like ⁓ some little wings have just kind of sprouted from the back of my my back I'm like a little angel about to jump off. ⁓ Paul Fattinger (08:05) Man, I mean, ⁓ first of all, let me say this and this is not in a, you this is, how you know how to understand this. I'm, I'm super proud man of what you've been, you know, and I know this, this has been inside of you for a long time. I've, and thanks to this podcast, I've been very close to this idea for the past year. ⁓ and, and to see that finally kind of, you know, not finally, not in a negative sense, but finally in like. Marc (08:25) Mmm. Yeah. Paul Fattinger (08:33) I've been waiting for this because I've been waiting, you know, wanting to see this and wanting you to feel this. So it's amazing. And it's really, really cool. But for our listeners to also, you know, take them along the journey, what is it exactly that you've decided to do and what is it that you want to do? Yeah. Marc (08:47) Yeah, that was my next thing. Great, Mark. Tell us what is it? Yes. Yeah. So I'm actually going to lead by just talking about the journey because I think it's really interesting and then I'll land on the idea itself. about a year ago, I get right back after the, you know, back at work, right? You know, I had our second child. I was like, you know, it's time for something different. I love this place. What is it that I could do? And, you know, as I was ruminating and thinking about it, you know, initially, I was like, Okay, you what, I know so much about transformation, I should go into private equity, you know, that should be really cool thing to do. ⁓ I know all that. And, you know, like, when you have really good friends who are like, Yeah, that could work. Because you could do whatever. No, no, you said, okay, yeah. Well, I was just thinking, you know, like, it's a business to be done. Paul Fattinger (09:24) I remember that stupid idea, I never said that. Marc (09:42) You know, there is a business there. The question is, should I do it? Should I do it? It's something totally different. And then, you know, it was really funny. Our founder, ⁓ tossed this line to me about eight years ago, which I remember, I'll never forget. said, you know, Mark, I said, if you want a different outcome for your life, you have to create something the world covets. Very simple, you know? And I said, Paul Fattinger (09:44) There is a need, you also have to, that's not good in there. Yeah, but yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Very simple, Marc (10:12) It's very simple. And I was like, I don't think the world is coveting a firm, you know, help people with private equity. It's a stupid fucking idea, you know? But ⁓ as we started Noodle on the idea, because everyone was like, yes, this is needed, etc. ⁓ We very clearly ran on the idea of actually of leadership ⁓ and helping readers navigate this era of AI and not that we're AI experts, but really help them. make strategic choices about what and how to react against kind of a world that's rewiring itself in real time. And that was the thread we were pulling on. then the nice thing about and Scott Galloway says this recently, not that he's, you know, Jesus or anything, but he tossed this away. He like, if you start something new, it's always great to start it with someone versus on your own, you know? And yeah. Paul Fattinger (11:03) I fully agree. Fully agree. Couldn't agree more. Marc (11:09) And in my partner, Wara, we just have complementary skills and networks. And we were then landed on this idea, discovered, you know what? Why don't we create a next-gen type think tank that can bring in insights from AI native companies, those that are making the future, and bring them to enterprises or those that are wrestling with it? And because of our respective kind of, you know, Rolodex if you will, know, we're lucky enough to have one that that's pretty good really good we're able to de-risk that idea and also understand pretty clearly that like those that are making the shovels, you know are unclear and have no idea what the Those are what people are doing with them, you know in real time they want those kind of insights and vice versa and There's a really powerful idea to do it Paul Fattinger (12:02) But let's pause on this. think this is such an amazing insight. Because if you just sum this up quickly, so you're building a company that with the purpose to companies find their way really in the new paradigm of AI and with everything it means to them in terms of leadership and purpose, et cetera. And also with the idea to be kind of a nexus to connect the companies that know with the companies that are struggling with it. And in exploring all of this, you discovered that the companies that know, quote unquote, actually have no fucking clue. I this is a bit exaggerated for the sake of the argument, but that's what you meant with your shovel metaphor. Is that correct? In a less strong way. Yeah, in less strong way. Marc (12:54) Yeah, I wouldn't quite use those words but but but no no no, but this is Paul Farting on a glass of water. That's true I think there's a big mystery right about what's happening and there's ⁓ there's a lot of vaporware out there, too Yeah, that's right. And so being helpful on that one is incredible and also I think Paul Fattinger (13:06) I think that's a fascinating insight already, right? Marc (13:15) you know, create a flywheel of intelligence through this think tank that then you can actually create real experiences around with RunC Suite, like here's what we're learning, et cetera. And then, you know, if we need to do consulting on top of it, we could. But I feel like there's something just awesome about ⁓ collecting these insights. And here's the funny part, man. It's like ⁓ people want to talk to us because I think we're a bit of a cool kids club. You know, we're not like a Bikinsey or Bain or BCG with respect to those firms. they always say AI natives. So and they want to know what's happening in the enterprise level. so far, it's, it's, it's kind of a wild nugget of an idea. But I think what's great about it is that everyone's saying, yeah, that's really needed. So fantastic. Paul Fattinger (14:00) I love it, man. I mean, it's awesome. It's awesome to see what it has become to and how it has morphed into what it is. I'm looking forward to how it's going to keep on morphing into something. And that's beauty of it. However, I want to ask you something because you introduced this episode as an episode about taking a risk or taking risks. And you spoke about the fact that this has been inside of you for a long time. Marc (14:23) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm. Paul Fattinger (14:30) and there's been a leap. But how much of a leap was it really for you? Now, do you feel right now that you're taking a risk? Marc (14:39) No, thank you for that clarification. I feel it's the most logical move. And I also think that my years, past eight years of leading, helping lead this company and selling and doing whatever has been just prepping you for this moment. So yeah, there's, you know, it also helps that I'm not leaving, you know. $10 million a job, making it up, you know, like, there's so much money that like for the next thing. But it's, it's a, it's a good moment to prove something to myself. And I also think like, there's the risk of letting your older self down. Do you ever have a, where like, gosh, if I'm 70, and then I stayed in this job or did something like, like you just, it's that what if, you know, and, and I find that to be very real inside of me. Paul Fattinger (15:40) That's an interesting one. The risk of disappointing your older self. See, I'm always disappointing my today self, so I'm not even thinking about my older self. This is in my fucked up perfectionist kind of self-loathing, imposter syndrome ridden away. ⁓ I'm so busy with justifying myself to my... Marc (15:50) So, so I actually I play both ways like. Well... Paul Fattinger (16:09) today's me that it's painful, you Marc (16:11) Okay, so do you ever do this? So actually, this is kind of a fun exercise. So you're in the middle as current state, right? I always do like, it would the child mark my younger self be disappointed or proud with what I'm doing, which means that like, I doing something connected to where I feel like a lot of people's initial passion is, know, when they're kids, they feel that. And then from the older side, when you're older, like, did you take enough risks in life? Paul Fattinger (16:34) Hmm? Marc (16:41) You know, which is what always is a kind of important thing. I never really think about the metal. Really. Paul Fattinger (16:45) You know, I never do. don't know. I don't know. Maybe those things, those parts are integrated well into my today's me in a sense that not in that clarity, to be honest. But what I found interesting is what you said, right? That you don't feel like you're taking a risk. And I think many times, and I'm sure there are moments where you do. And I'm sure there are moments where you are like, fuck me, what the fuck am I doing? But overall, ⁓ you're writing this with a lot of confidence, at least what I've seen, and determination and purpose. Or faking it, and fair enough, and I think that's part of it. And from the outside, it always looks more dramatic than that. And I don't want to extrapolate from this to everybody, but it's also been kind of my experience where... Marc (17:24) Yeah, yeah, or at least faking it. Hmm. Paul Fattinger (17:41) moves that I might've made look maybe more dramatic from the outset and from the inside, were never without respect or even fear of failing or what the FMI doing, but always somehow driven by this very steady stream of confidence and purpose. And I almost feel like when the stars align that this kind of energy Marc (17:57) Mm. Hmm. Hmm. Paul Fattinger (18:09) you drives you through that resistance that you have. And maybe we are blessed in that, in the fact that we can feel that and that we have access to that kind of energy and that it's stronger than the natural resistance that we have, I think, as humans against change because it's uncertainty and uncertainty is never, you know, is always the root of, you know, of things going down or going bad. So Marc (18:12) Yes. Yeah. Paul Fattinger (18:37) Yeah, I wonder what it is, but I share the same kind of experience that the risk never felt so risky. Well, other people ask me, why the fuck did you do that? How is that something you can you can go with as an idea? Marc (18:48) Yeah. It is, but I also think, yeah, no, I do, I love it. But I did, was a bit of a smart ass, right? I mean, I'll say this, like when I resigned, I thanked our friend, see, said, thank you for not paying me a lot of money. This made it just a lot easier. Paul Fattinger (19:09) Yeah, you know, speaking of golden handcuffs kind of thing, you mean? Marc (19:13) Yeah, yeah, exactly. I was like, thank God. They were like, you know, plastic could rip them off. That's a joke. I'm joking. Paul Fattinger (19:19) Also, listen, can, no, but I hear you because I think, you know, I mean, I was fired from my last job, you know, I mean, that's even more than not being paid well. It's someone telling you, you're not going to be paid from tomorrow on, basically. So, in a sense, push, it also drove me to what I am doing now and into a new phase of my life, which Marc (19:31) Yeah, that's true. Paul Fattinger (19:48) I don't think I would have entered if I hadn't gotten the shove that I got. So in a sense, there's a mild form is not being paid overly, like in a way that you'd never want to leave. There's a hardcore form where you're going to keep being kicked out of the door, which is a bit exaggerated obviously. But yeah, but sometimes you need that. There's a lot of factors, let's put it like this, that need to play together for a change, I think. Marc (20:13) Mmm. Mmm. Can I ask you this and now I think we should talk about ⁓ what you're doing as well. if I had a, maybe less a question, more of an observation. The thing that surprised me the most out of all this was how important my friendship circles were in sharpening ideas, navigating them. Paul Fattinger (20:17) you Marc (20:44) And I didn't really anticipate that. And I'm so grateful for it. Like it was just it was just an interesting. It was interesting how much I needed that fuel. Paul Fattinger (20:56) ⁓ Why was it surprising to you though? Marc (20:59) Well, there's not much else to add. I know it's just, you know, like I think like lots of times you always read about these like entrepreneurs that lead with conviction, you know, they just knew it was going to be a big idea. They believed in no one else did, you know, this kind of stuff. Right. And I was like, no, actually, I think like it's less about the de-risking was just the kind of an awesome support network, you know, like I have friends who are like ping me every three weeks and did you quit yet? What's going on? You know, just motivating and they didn't care when one way or the other they were just kind of motivating me to like just stick with the dream you know what I mean it's kind of an interesting it was an interesting dynamic in all of it right that that was really pleasant I didn't expect I thought it be feel a lot more lonely and it was the opposite Paul Fattinger (21:46) Nice, very nice. That's a very nice one. Marc (21:48) Yeah, yeah, that's a shout out. You also played a role in that. Yeah. Paul Fattinger (21:52) I took it as a compliment. Thank you. Yeah. Marc (21:52) Anyway, good. Yeah, you have a big role for it. know. Thank you for thank you for for not saying anything during but I was exploring private equity. You did say that was you did you did you think that was stupid? Yeah. Paul Fattinger (21:57) Yeah, but you know, but did you ever I did say something very clearly, loud and Loud and clear. remember even in Paris, remember also in the wake of the birthing of this amazing podcast, I did say something there. So we kind of talked about the risk and what it, you but was there anything specific I wonder for you? it's kind of like just to close that loop that really made you say, Marc (22:19) You did. Paul Fattinger (22:34) That's it. I'm going to go. You talked about your second child being born. You talked about, you know, you said asking about your older self and your younger self, you know, looking at you and kind of saying, you know, am I, am I making the most out of this? Or was there a specific moment you remember something that kind of pushed you over the cliff? Marc (22:55) Yeah, it's a huge lesson. It's a huge lesson. ⁓ As I was sort of de-risking this idea, actually it's one of the things I'll take away from here. was thinking of three lessons. One is, and this would probably be one of the top of the list. So ⁓ I talked to a lot of potential clients, friends about this, right? And everyone was saying, yes, this is needed. I was... In my head, I always had this idea that someone will reach out to me and be like, Hey, didn't you talk about this thing? Let's get going. You know, and that would be the spark. ⁓ and then that didn't happen. And I remember I was, we had another, yet another great enthusiastic conversation. My co, my co-founder and I was someone just de-risking this idea and sharing it, et cetera. And I was like, so if everyone's liking it and no one's Why is no one buying me right away? Right? Or like saying, I want to be a member of this amazing think tank. You just concocted, you know, and, you know, and I think the lesson I learned is that because I was still at this other wonderful place called this white partners, you know, while I was talking to them and they felt like I didn't have full skin in the game yet. You know, I kept saying, Hey, I'm planning on doing this thing. I'm thinking about this. What do you think about it? Would you do it? Paul Fattinger (24:01) Yeah. Probably. Marc (24:22) et cetera. And it's so interesting now that I'm ended this chapter and free, like the amount of people have now come back to say, wow, the thing you're doing, did it amazing. Let's talk is so is different. And so Paul Fattinger (24:39) I think that's it. mean, yeah. So the, the, authenticity at the end of the day, right? That you actually put your money where your mouth is and, that's, that's. you know, you know, energy falls in tension. You know, that's, that's a very special way of saying this, but it's exactly what this is. Right. Because, you know, are you in, or are you not? Marc (24:47) That's a good summary. Yeah. That's right. No, so it's a really cool idea. I like that. Yeah. Paul Fattinger (25:05) You know what I wonder? while we were talking, I was thinking about one thing that, you know, my coach, Johannes, we had on the pod in one of the previous episodes. And if you haven't listened to it, you should really do because it was a beautiful one. And, and he, and I was, you know, really in intense work with him when I, when I left my last job and when, when I decided to, to really take off for 12 months and, Marc (25:14) Mm. Yes, it's a great one. Paul Fattinger (25:32) and not do anything, you know, in terms of getting, you know, something or getting something new that would ⁓ require, you know, my full creative and professional energy for a longer period of time. And I was obviously very scared of this. And I was very scared of not having a source of income. And I was very scared of, not knowing what comes next. I was also very unsure of what should be coming next. And we talked a lot about, you know, trusting the universe. Marc (25:49) Yeah. Mmm. Paul Fattinger (26:02) In a sense. And if you remember, I always, when we spoke, I also kind of urge you to say, I know it's hard from an income and point of view, especially when you and your wife are looking after two young kids, but I almost feel it needs that leap that you say, go. And I might know where the idea is, but it's not like my next gig is lined up, but I'm just basically cruising now. on borrowed time in a sense, right? Or on time that was given to me, but I'm really going into that fucking hole and I have an idea how it's going out. And I have an idea how this letter looks like that someone is gonna bring down to me into that hole, but I don't quite know when it's gonna come or who is gonna give it to me. So how do you feel about that? Marc (26:40) That's right. That's right. First of all, it's a perfect synthesis. way of saying it's like you're either all the universe will pay you back when you're all in. And, and I think that's the. Yeah. And also I think, you know, what you did during your year off was similar, right? I mean, you left him all in mode of self discovery and, and, finding yourself taking trips, trying to figure out what's what. I think that's very, you know, Paul Fattinger (27:05) Yes. Are you going to have to let your pants down, Marc (27:25) I think you've come, well I know you've come out much stronger and different on the other side because of that energy you put out there. It's a good lesson. Paul Fattinger (27:34) Yeah, finally enough, also took, know, kind of made a very clear goal and manifestation of what I wanted, you know, when this year was over. And I had no idea how it's going to come to me and it came to me in a, and we're going to do an episode about this because I think it's fascinating. But in a way, a rule and a job or, you know, or something to do and something with an income came to me when I was with you in New York, in fact. Marc (27:53) Mmm. I wanted to... Paul Fattinger (28:03) So I think that's part of the game, which doesn't mean to completely let go and sit basically on the deck chair and sip, you know, a pina coladas. I don't think that's how it works. It, you know, I mean, and if it did, I was, I would be the first one to do it. The first one to try that out. But I think it is about putting in the work, putting in the faith. ⁓ But, but also. Marc (28:15) Hahaha! Paul Fattinger (28:30) you putting in the faith into the universe, something is going to come out of all of this. And without you knowing what exactly, what lever exactly it was that you pulled when that's going to lead to that. And, and, and as I see things unfolding for you now, things that we might not be able to talk about just yet, you know, I think there's something very similar is happening that is almost karmic, you know, as an experience. Marc (28:53) Yeah, yeah. Totally. And I think also, yeah. There's also something. Can I offer this to like, there's something about starting something in your mid 40s versus your 30s that's so radically different. Like I just feel like I carry so much wisdom and the patterns. Like I know what to expect. Like I know there'll be months that'll be really dry, months that might run hot, like unevenness, of like, no not to freak out, like that kind of thing. To even, the confidence of which you can step in to offer something of value. So it's, it's, it's such a different thing. And that to me is really surprising. You know, I felt like if I was doing this stuff in the thirties, I'd be wasting so much time on what doesn't matter versus what does. Paul Fattinger (29:39) you Marc (29:45) And, Paul Fattinger (29:45) That's interesting. mean, that's a so you know what you're saying is I'm always thinking of the opposite. I'm always thinking of the imposter syndrome as the opposite of this in the sense of like, what am I actually doing here? And it's something that I've been, it's always been part of my life, that I didn't feel like I was ready to play the part. I still now, I don't think I'm an entrepreneur because there are people with a much younger age taking much more risk doing greater things in my eyes. Marc (29:58) Mm. Paul Fattinger (30:22) taking bigger risks. I also never was someone who took an idea from the from very zero to something. I was always someone who probably, you know, is very good at taking it from 10 to 100 rather than from zero to 10. But in any case, is that imposter thing something that has been part of your journey as well? Because you come across as extremely self confident and what you just said is right. So and then I thought of the opposite. No, and I mean this in a very positive way, because I think you're right. And I think you have Marc (30:33) Mmm. Paul Fattinger (30:50) something to offer to this world and the feedback you've gotten to your idea so far is proving exactly that point. So as someone who is like confident as this, are you also sometimes feeling like an imposter? Marc (30:56) Yeah. Yeah. We're gonna find by the way. I mean, I'm gonna find out pretty quickly to what degree But yeah, yeah exactly like really really quickly, but I think Paul Fattinger (31:11) That is actually true. No, but not in a joking way, but really inside of you. You don't have to have an imposter syndrome to be cool, you know. can also don't have one. I think it's totally fine. Marc (31:21) I think, yeah, no, it happens from time to time. Look, there are lots of times I'm in conversations, I was like, I have no right being here, and somehow people think I'm smart about it. You know, it's all the time, that happens. I also think, you know, I'm pretty clear now what I'm good at, what I'm not, and I've leaned against that. I'm reading against that, I'm reading into that wholeheartedly. Let's put it that way. And you know, the other thing I just take, sorry, just to add color to this, you I think that you mentioned the younger entrepreneurs and stuff like this. forgot the percentage. It's like, it's ridiculous. It's something like, you know, 99 % of them make it and then, you know, and there's a romanticized like people who you go through because I don't know what the fuck they're doing. Paul Fattinger (32:02) Yeah. No, no, no, listen, listen, I want to into this right away. Because it's one of the few stats of one of the few actual hard facts I remember that we actually ⁓ learned in the NBA. And one of those was not there. There were exactly two things I remember. One is that money actually doesn't motivate you. And that's maybe because we did the hippie NBA because it actually said, you the correlation between having a big bonus and more Marc (32:20) Yeah. the Paul Fattinger (32:34) Yeah, actually more performance doesn't exist. And the other one was that the chances for success for entrepreneurs that start their business, you know, well into the career, mostly over their 40s is like five, six, seven times higher than people doing it. Right. It's like insane, insane. I mean, listen, think of the greatest. I mean, I always say, you know, Dietrich Magdalen, know, God bless him who founded Red Bull, you know, in a, of the most famous Austrian entrepreneurs, he found a Red Bull at the age of 53. Marc (32:48) It's yeah, exactly. It's exponentially higher. Yeah. I always love that. I love those stories. ⁓ Paul Fattinger (33:08) 53 and his son is now 33. I think he's a Multi multi multi billionaire right on the back of the success of this brand. So 53 so we still got time man. I mean, it's it's it's actually that No, no, I think that's a that's a good one Marc (33:14) Yeah. No, I'm not worried. Yeah, exactly, yeah. Well. Well, on that note, that's my news. So I'm not the hijack this this, this pod, this podcast about me, but I thought, ⁓ you know, our dedicated listeners would benefit from knowing what's top of mind. Paul Fattinger (33:40) Absolutely. And I wanted to just ahead of one thought before because we kind of maybe downplayed the risk part of this. And I just wanted to share a quick recent episode. Marc (33:48) Mmm. ⁓ Mark, you're actually quite fucked. Paul Fattinger (33:55) No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, because I think it might have come across like, you know, you know, when things are right, you know, and the stars align, it all feels super easy. And, and, and maybe it does feel like this in hindsight, but, this just made me think of, of, of an experience I had with a very good friend of mine a few days ago, actually a week ago. And this friend of mine is also, you know, Marc (34:07) Yeah. Paul Fattinger (34:23) on the verge of a similar leap to yours, ⁓ coming out of a very steady, ⁓ well-paid, secure job where you know when you have to get in and out, can get your kids in order, you know what I mean, all the safety and pleasantries. And it's kind of got a calling to go solo and do something that I think she is uniquely qualified for, very similarly to you. And when we talked about it, I could see the color fade from her face. And I looked at her and I said, so what's going on? And she's like, my belly is turning upside down. And I looked at her and I got really touched. was like, I think this is amazing. And I think this is a very good sign because you know, nothing, there is this point where you feel that, but it is not the feeling of doom. It is the feeling of something great, but you know, it's gonna take something to step over that. Marc (34:56) Mm. Yeah. Paul Fattinger (35:24) that cliff or that hurdle or whatever that gap. ⁓ So I think there is that part and reminded me of that. And if I think of all of my cliff jumps, they all had a feeling like this afterwards, you're like, yeah, of course that was easy. was totally stars aligned all good, know, fuck that. So, but it's not true. Yeah. Marc (35:30) That resonates a lot. yeah, no, totally. Let's let's be clear. Two things to offer. Let's be clear. I have not been sleeping amazingly well, you know, for the past several months as I've been like, like, yeah, sorry, let me clear. no, mean, I might be showing up kind of confident. Yeah. Like I had to train my brain. Thank you, by the way, for the How to Focus the Jushenat Han book Paul gave me once. I was actually reading. Well, it's just like I need to Paul Fattinger (35:48) Okay, this is the truth here. Yeah, it's fun. It's actually fun. Marc (36:04) Discipline my brain because I wake up every six hours to like think about what I should be doing I said no you should resting and then you can benefit the thing you're building. That's one two is on the day I resigned Foley I was so nervous I went to the bathroom like five times and my see already knew what I was doing right and I was like I was like I don't know like it's just like she's like I want to feel like that. Yeah, I think it's just It's it's exciting. I think people That level of as you said, right? mean, when you get it, it's great. And ⁓ because, you know, very few people break their backs, so. Paul Fattinger (36:42) No, exactly. And when you get that feeling, it's an invitation. I think it's an invitation to explore where it comes from and to go further. And that's a beautiful thing. Marc (36:50) All right. So this podcast, I'm not hijacking it from now on, it's just going to be the ups and downs of Mark's journey, you know, as he's taking off for one week, I'll be great. Another week, I'll be like, holy fucking shit. Yeah. ⁓ Paul Fattinger (37:03) Listen, I think it could be very entertaining. got the feedback we should be talking more about our own journeys and we have today. So let's see how that's going to go. And I think it's been an amazing episode and awesome to talk about this. And I can't wait to see what's going to happen. And listen, if you ever have a job for me, know, for an unemployed, you know, former executive that, you know, that can very good. Marc (37:12) Good. that's well, that's well agreed. actually, yeah, let's talk after this. That's great. Yeah, well, that's for sure. I know. Yeah, talk about imposters. You know how to show up smart. ⁓ Well, listen, thank you for that. That was great. Now I feel I feel like I just did a therapy session. It was amazing. Paul Fattinger (37:32) can look great in the meeting. I'm yours. I'm yours. I'm yours. All right, Well, I'm gonna send you the bill. Listen, before I send you the bill, tell me about your terminator and or idiot of the week. Anything that comes to your mind. You can do whatever you want. Marc (37:57) Yeah, we're gonna do idiot first and then terminate. so you might have heard you might have heard that we had a snowstorm last week in New York City. And really, well, I always think New York's the center of the universe. know, anyway, ⁓ not only do we have, I would say a half, a little less than half meter of snow. ⁓ But then with with a serious cold blast. Paul Fattinger (38:08) I haven't actually. Crazy, how was it? I wish I had that now, yeah. Marc (38:27) So everything just sticks, right? And so, so I don't know if you have this in Austria, but like the Americans, what they do here is they just blast everything with salt. So it's like, yeah, but like, not just a little bit of salt. This is like, let me epic amount of salt that de-risk like, like you're walking around, it's salty. I write, I write a. Paul Fattinger (38:46) But you know the nuclear option is a jet engine mounted to a truck. Marc (38:51) Really? Really? Paul Fattinger (38:52) No, seriously, I saw this on Instagram the day. like in China, they mounted a jet engine onto a truck and it blasts away the ice. That's fucking insane. saw. Marc (38:59) Hahaha! That's what I'd Well, it turns out, think this blasted somewhat salt in Brooklyn that created like corrosive activity in the pipes, you know, down below. The heat went out. Paul Fattinger (39:13) That's a lot of salt because mixed with all of the shit that is going there. Marc (39:17) Yeah, exactly. So so world class idiots. It's so funny. My god, you know. ⁓ And my terminator of the week is my now old firm, as my partner. I think they have been very gracious and supportive and exciting in supporting me in my new venture. And, you know, I laid a lot of bricks there. And it's nice to feel the appreciation. So Paul Fattinger (39:22) Alright. Shout out to them and an amazing outfit. think all the things you guys have produced, mean, even before you were there, it was always an inspiration. No, it was always an inspiration to me and the work I've done and some something to look up to. Oh man, nice. How to follow up on this? I mean, my edit of the week is very benign and banal. It's the fucking virus or Marc (39:51) Yeah. Yeah. Well, we went downhill after that. Yeah. Paul Fattinger (40:14) or bacteria that is haunting my kids right now and has fucked me. It's really a pain in the ass. had a, at least I had a daughter crying in her bed this morning because she had, I don't know, 38.6 fever and just like, but I want to go skiing. This is so unfair. And I thought this is a good Austrian girl, know, mean, a fever coma, but she wants to go skiing so badly that she's crying. So I love this very much. Marc (40:15) Yeah, that's killing your children. ⁓ my god. I'm sorry. Yeah. yeah, you should be very proud. ⁓ Paul Fattinger (40:43) And the Terminator of the week, was almost I was almost going to give it to myself of, you know, for showing up in this podcast in a car using basically using three or 4 % of the of Tesla's battery, which is basically worth, you know, usually 40 kilometers that we eat it away at minus eight degrees outside. But then I got to say I watched the tennis the other day. I came home early from skiing, I turned it on and the force said, this Marc (40:51) You deserve it, by the way. Yeah Paul Fattinger (41:12) The little Titan, Wizard of Oz, ⁓ copyright to the Joker. What a game. Two fucking legends from different ages playing each other. What a beautiful sport. The stories it tells. Amazing. I also love all the way the whole industry is evolving around it. All the podcasts around it. Marc (41:12) Yeah. So cool. Yeah. Paul Fattinger (41:36) Served with Andy Roddick. Amazing. know, nothing major, you know, two, four former U.S. players. Amazing content. Good stuff. Really. So much good stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the class. mean, the class. On the court and off the court. I know how to play tennis. I've never been great with, with... Marc (41:45) It's getting more human, more sophisticated, even when Rafa was there. I mean, it was amazing, that kind of tribute. What do want? nah. By the way, do you play tennis? Paul Fattinger (42:05) balls in games, you know. Marc (42:09) Yeah, well, should pick it up one day. Yeah, I got it. Yeah, we all got your little joke. Yeah, there we go. Exactly. Mountain jokes. ⁓ Goodbye. See ya. Paul Fattinger (42:10) Yeah, yeah, so. Yeah. I didn't joke. On that note, yeah, yeah, mountain jokes. See you guys. See you next week. Ciao.