How to Not Lose Your Friends in Midlife | Ep 34

Marc (00:00) Yeah. The fest. Welcome to Guys Like Yes. If you're new to this podcast, this is a podcast about the things that you start to think about when you're in your prime, midlife. You'll hear stories about family, leadership relationships, friendships, fun nights out, and all the short, sorry, I'm gonna do that again real quick. One, two. Paul (00:27) Mark, try to really, I mean, put your mic in front of your mouse, I think it's so much better. I mean, even if we don't see you as well, but yeah, it's a hundred percent better. Marc (00:32) Like this? Like this? Okay. Okay. You ready? Paul (00:37) Mm-hmm. Marc (00:39) Welcome to Guys Like Us. If you're new to this podcast, this is a podcast about the things that you start to think about when you're in your prime, know, midlife. You will hear stories about family, leadership, relationships, friendships, fun nights out, in short, the things that shaped us and continue to move us. In today's episode, we're going to talk about long distance friendships. ⁓ I'm your host, Mark Winter, a self-conceived artist, entrepreneur, husband and father of two based in New York. And I'm joined today by Paul (01:09) Paul calling in from his last ski day. I am a skier, obviously, a father of three, a business leader and a newly found podcast host. Marc (01:25) and a pretty good one at that. How are you doing, buddy? Paul (01:28) I'm No, I'm fantastic. Marc (01:29) Yeah, well, you know, we're talking about long, we're talking about long distance relationships for a very particular moment. And this is going to be a quick hit episode ⁓ in part because it's funny, a nice ⁓ trifecta of us, friends got together and in year with a dear friend of ours, Hans out in Lech. And we thought, man, you know what? We all wish we could spend a lot more time together, especially friends who, who live across different continents. And today we thought we'd explore a little bit. Paul (02:00) Yes, man. I love it how our real life situations inform the choices for our topics. No, no, but it's exactly what happened. I met a friend that Marc and I hung out with a lot 15 years ago when we did our NBA. He came skiing with his family ⁓ to a place here in Austria that I like very much and I came here to join him. We wanted him on the pod. He couldn't come because work has really taken him and so he couldn't join. Marc (02:06) Hahaha! Paul (02:29) He just said hello very quickly. And that's why we came up with this topic, which I think is so on point. We've talked about it in the very beginning of our series, actually. was our, I think, first episode about friendship. This one is, I think, more compact and really about how to make it work, especially when you live across like three continents, like the three of us do in New York, Dubai, and Vienna. Marc (02:52) totally true. you know, I think like the I have to say, well, first of all, what are you drinking? Are you drinking a beer? Look, that's totally true. Paul (02:59) Yeah, I was about to say we need a guys like drink section here, which is I am having a Zillertaler Pils. A nice little Pils from Tyrol. Easy, cheesy. Like it. What are you having? Marc (03:08) Okay. Okay. Nice. Well, listen, it's 2 PM on a Monday and you know, I normally, normally it would be a T. Yeah, exactly. No, but you know, because I was reuniting with old friends briefly, I thought, listen, the very least I can make a lily, you know, the upper T even spritz. it's, know, it's it's refreshing, picking it easy. Paul (03:21) No. So I'm having a whiskey sour. that's nice. That's a nice one. Very much so. Alright man, let's hit it! Marc (03:42) So the big thing is first of all, like stepping back, how would you rate yourself on a scale one to 10 and maintaining friends, ⁓ long distance friendships? I find them really, it's a tough one. Paul (03:56) I would give myself a max of a five. Yourself? Yeah. Marc (04:00) Really. I think I'm a nine ⁓ out of 10. I just, yeah, but we're gonna get to that in a sec. Yeah, we're gonna get to that in a second. But I think that's just, it's something that's always felt kind of natural to me. ⁓ I think in part as a social being, I guess, or probably too social for some. But nonetheless, I just feel like when you meet someone awesome, Paul (04:05) Wow, that's probably true. That's probably true. Marc (04:33) The biggest tragedy is to lose contact with that person due to geography. ⁓ Especially given the amount of technology that's available to us. It's just always sad to see it kind of, a friendship slips through the fingers just because you don't get to see each other all the time. That's one. And then two is, let's be real. ⁓ In midlife, when everyone has kids, I think I see you more than a lot of my friends than I see in Brooklyn who I've known forever. Paul (05:01) I think that's the toughest one, It's the kids and all the things that you have to do, right? In terms of work, wife, kids. And it's probably the obstacle in maintaining friendships in general, and let alone long distance ones, which are much harder to keep. Marc (05:19) Right. on this, agreed, on this short hit kind of podcast, what I thought we could do is just offer a couple of tips and tricks to kind of maintain, let's put it this way, friendships over the distance. You know, when you find someone, you like them, you want to hang out with them, et cetera, how is it that you often are able to create a bond? ⁓ I'm going to go first because I prepared a list. Have you? Paul (05:46) That's great. Yeah, no, no, that's I was about to ask you that you go, please go first and maybe that and please go first so I can think of something because I'm a five and you're a nine. So I think it's totally fine. You start, you know, to please. Marc (05:47) ⁓ He's like, he's like, please go first cuz like Well Listen, the first thing I need I think is really really smart is if you invent or create a ritual a ritual like something that you do once a year and actually I think we talked about this I think you Well, no, that's more of it. That's a business dude. That's a total ⁓ Paul (06:12) Like your podcast. Okay, okay, okay, sorry. Marc (06:18) But if you think about like, ⁓ like a intentionally designed like so for example, I think you mentioned that you and your friends, you your you guys go out I think once a year in Graz right on the lake, right? I mean, that's like, and that's it's like a boys week a thing that you do. Yeah. Yeah. Paul (06:30) Yeah, Yeah, like a boys weekend. Okay. Yeah. A ritual or like me joining Hans's ski trip for the second time in a row. It's also, think, starts becoming a ritual. Marc (06:43) Yeah, let's see if that lasts after this trip. But yes, I agree. But I think like, no, but I think like, I think a ritual is just like a very queer design, like intentionally designed. This is a sacrosanct. Paul (06:48) Fair enough. yeah, let's keep on going. Okay, a ritual. No. But on a long distance, how would that work? mean, it's like that you go, I don't know. See a football match. Exactly. Yeah. Fair enough. Marc (07:02) You pick a spot, you're like, this is the year. No, not a football, like this is the year. like, you know, we have dear friends in London, for example, or like, you know what we're gonna do? We're gonna like, life happens so fast, we're gonna pick a destination, that's the place we're actually gonna go do, et cetera. Like that's another thing. Yeah. The second, think this is really critical. So what gets in the way of, or is friction very often between friends? Paul (07:16) Okay, fair enough. I love it. Ritual. Yeah. Marc (07:31) ⁓ Name one thing. Paul (07:34) Wives, kids. really? Here we go. ⁓ Marc (07:36) Exactly, Wives, wives. The secret, I think, is, I mean, I think this is probably very easy in our case, but you absolutely need to befriend their wives and enroll them in the things that you're doing. Paul (07:54) Dude, I completely fucked that one up yesterday. Marc (07:57) Really? Paul (08:00) Yeah, because you know what, so it was the night before yesterday it was snowing. I got super excited that there's going to be power snow. So I was like, Hans, we need to find a guide who shows us where the powder is and go skiing. And then at dinner with also there was another couple, another person with like five or six adults. I asked Hans's wife in front of everybody if they will be okay if Hans went skiing tomorrow with me. Marc (08:14) Yeah. Paul (08:27) Leaving her alone with three kids on the first day of ski school obviously a terrible idea So I mean I got I think I got a few big minus points on that evening so I that might be the edit of the week and But anyways Hansi very smartly chose, you know, the most important thing happy wife happy life. So yeah, he did well But yeah, I fucked that up. So yeah, I can relate I understand and you're right and yeah, Marc (08:33) Wow. You did well, guess, yeah. I'm not gonna make things, well, I just think like, you know, if you're not, the way, I know you do it. I we all know that as a woman, but I think actually, think if you're not like actively, if you make it so much easier for your friends, if everyone just likes each other and just then, otherwise you get relegated. Paul (09:00) It was well meant though. Really. But they could also make it easy and choose good wives, which I think, which in this case, Hansi absolutely did. But you know this example when your friends get married to someone, that you're like, fuck me, this is not gonna go down well. And that's very often the end of a friendship. Marc (09:28) Yes. yeah. It is the end of a friend. Look, I think this is why you need to save it that way. Paul (09:35) which you cannot overcome. And this podcast is not going to tell you how to deal with, you know, a badly chosen wife of one of your best friends. Marc (09:42) No, totally. mean, look, if they're an idiot, that happens from time to time. But nonetheless, I often feel like if you're not being integrated more holistically as part of the everyday reality of said friend, it makes it much harder than you just basically get relegated. Paul (09:57) Yes, I mean, best case also your partner and they get along right and all of this stuff Marc (10:03) 100%. They don't need to be best friends, they just need to get along. It's like a fun thing, and suddenly becomes more cohesive, 100%. Paul (10:09) Well, exactly, and also kids in the same age help, but you can't control this, but that's usually also something that works, right? I mean, that helps, because it makes your lives more compatible, right? But it's not something you can actively do. Let's face it. Marc (10:15) Right, ⁓ that's easier. Of course. But I think everyone forgets how important it is to target the other person's, ⁓ and by the way, you're very good at this too. Also on my end, think Vero adores you. You've done a very nice job at making, like. Paul (10:32) But you've done a very nice job with Vera, which I've been telling you many times. But that's not good. Yeah. But there, when you're listening, you know exactly what I mean. Okay. Okay. Here we go. All right. Yeah. So you can't choose the wife. You can't choose when they have kids, but you have to deal with the situation in the best possible way. 100%. Great. What's the third one? Marc (10:35) Okay, first. That's not good. Yeah, yeah, heads up, she's not. so. No, but you could intentionally build relationships. Exactly, exactly. Okay, ⁓ you need the irresistible ticket. Like you need the one thing that everyone will be fly over for a thing to go actually go do. it's either like I do this all the time. get, yeah, yeah, totally. Or for the sphere, for Metallica, the sphere. Exactly, done, game over, right? Like there's just something that you will, like is so comfortable that everyone's like, fuck it, like I need to be there. Paul (11:09) So you got us tickets for the World Cup? Is that what you're trying to tell me? ⁓ okay, cool. that would be cool. Marc (11:28) And what I often do is I make it up and then test the waters that way. And then if they, and then if everyone's agreed, then I'll get them. You know what I mean? But like it's just, I'm just manifesting as a space. And this is very often how I've started to get friends all together behind a thing. Or in New York, even when we don't see each other, which could just be friendships in general, I book a restaurant reservation at a hot restaurant that everyone wants to go to. and it's just amazing. Everyone has plans until Mark has a reservation at the Polo Bar, know? Then everyone doesn't have plans anymore and they're like, okay, what is it? I'll get the babysitter, exactly. the concert tickets I had to do? Fuck it, I'm selling them, I'm going to that. So those are my ⁓ three hit methods. Do you have any others that you would like to come? Paul (12:05) Nice, I like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I also have three and they're much smaller on the scale and maybe more tactical. The first one is ⁓ perseverance. Marc (12:29) Okay. Hahaha! Paul (12:36) No, why am I saying this? Because you call a friend, you write, they might not be able to write back because they're in the middle of work, whatever, kids and stuff. Don't stop calling them. Don't stop writing to them. Keep on going, keep on going, keep on going, keep on going. I think that's super important. And it just made me think of a friend who's been doing that with me and I haven't been replying. So I will do that tonight. And the second one of this is... Marc (12:53) Mm, mm. Hahaha! Paul (13:05) reply, you know, if that happens to you and don't feel bad about it and take the time and take the time to do that and connect and connect even with small things, you know, send a picture, send a hello. How's it going? Make them part of your life, you know, so it's a little bit related about what is going on. And I do think while it's always amazing to see each other in person, you know, even if it's only once a year and it usually feels like you've, you know, you've, you've seen this person yesterday for the last time. Marc (13:16) Yeah, yeah. Paul (13:34) while it was more than a year. I think if you manage to speak with said friend, let's say every couple of months, every three months, if you have time in the evening, know, the stars align and you put in your airports, you walk around in your flat, you do some stuff and you talk for an hour about what's going on. I find those are, you know, those are the magical moments that really keep a friendship fresh where you can share and talk. And to me, I'd rather do that. six times in three years than seeing the person only once in three years, just to give it a little bit of a weight. So it's really perseverance, a little bit of accountability on your own end to actually reply and be there if someone calls. Because I hate nothing more if someone doesn't call me back of my friends when I call them, which I'm also guilty of. And the third one, actually finding the time to schedule these kind of deep talk calls. Marc (14:13) Mmm. Paul (14:32) you know, once in a while. Marc (14:32) Yeah, no, no, that's actually a really good one. Yeah, I actually, and I feel like, well, very often I think you get behind, okay, how many times does this happen to you? It's a friend that you know you owe a big catch up for, right? But in your head, you're like, that's an hour of my time and I can't take that right now, you know, just because you're so on the road. And then if therefore you put off talking to them because you're like, gosh, it's a giant fucking list I have to go through. Paul (14:55) Totally. Totally. And I think what really helps there is, sometimes how many times are you sitting on your couch and scrolling on Instagram or doing something, you know, or when I go and clean up my flat or I run some things. And sometimes I'm not saying always at all. I'm just going to, I just randomly try to call up that friend or those two, three friends. And once in a while, one of those fuckers picks actually picks up when he's in a similar situation. Marc (15:06) Totally. Mmm. Paul (15:22) And we do have a conversation and seriously, it happens maybe one out of 10 times or two out of 10 times. But those are absolutely, I think, pivotal to keeping that friendship alive. So that's why I said, you know, just perseverance and thinking about it. Yeah, it's not bad. All right. That's six pretty handy tips there. Marc (15:27) Mm. Mm. pretty good actually, I like that. ⁓ No, there's just two others I wanna add or like two other tidbits just making you think. I often think like if something's in the news, know, and someone is out there, it's either a funny article about like what's going on in Berlin, I'll send it to my friends in Berlin, the New York Times or like something in Rio, Brazil, like doesn't have to be political, but like, you know, an event or something. just usually. Paul (15:57) Mm. Mm. Marc (16:06) send them the link to the article and just say, thinking of you or is this really true or this kind of stuff, know, just to get their perspective. And I think that's a usually easy way to keep a connection, know, which risks on your part. It's a bit of it, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, but it's just more tying it like, yeah. Paul (16:15) Yeah, to connect. Yeah. It's kind of my second part, right? This kind of trying to keep the connection up, right? It's one way. Yeah. Don't just send selfies from awesome spots and drinks you're having because that might piss people off, right? That's what I usually do. ⁓ But do that too. Exactly. Okay. Yeah. I'm not German, but thank you. What's the second one? Marc (16:27) Fuck, that's. It's the most German thing in the world. Here's photos of me drinking, honestly. I know, it's crazy. And then finally, this is, I know, find, Dachling. Second thing is, ⁓ I think fantasy weeks for sports guys. Really big things. Like I'm not, I've seen it for my friends who've also mastered this really well. I was like, guys, how do you stay in touch with everyone? They're like, easily. We have fantasy week. Paul (16:55) That is a, that's a fascinating one. Nice. Marc (16:58) Yeah, you invite your friends in and suddenly like, cause you're then competing against each other. Doesn't matter what, like that's, that's a way to stay in right versus just having doing the big catch up. There we go. There we go. Well, we promised a quick hit episode and of the moment. And this is our quick hit episode of the moment. ⁓ short and sweet and hope you enjoyed it, but nonetheless, it's not too short. No short for. Paul (17:05) Hmm. Nice mark, nice one, nice one. Cool. Huh. No summary needed. Exactly. Marc (17:28) not too short for Terminator and Idiot of the Week. And we are gonna launch with Idiots first. ⁓ Paul, do you have an idiot that you would like to share with your audience? Paul (17:33) Yes. I mean, I think I shared mine before, ⁓ which was myself. Yeah, also, you know, I also honestly think after we talked about it last time, ⁓ we should make it more of an, you know, the idiotic, the most idiotic thing I've done this week, part. I'm not sure if you go along with this, but for me, it would be really easy because I do so many stupid things in a week that it would be hard to choose. So that was mine. Yeah. Marc (17:46) It's always you. Ha Okay, well, I can play around. Paul (18:09) What I'd shared before that I put my friend's wife in a bad position there and obviously we didn't make it to go skiing that day together because I also then went on my own because there is no friends on powder days. Marc (18:22) Can I ⁓ follow up? Did you apologize to said wife? Paul (18:27) Please. I shall do so when I go to dinner now. In a way I did, but not properly. Marc (18:37) Please say, please tell her Mark said I should apologize. Paul (18:42) Yes, you are such a fucker, but I will do that. Yeah, okay. Marc (18:45) Okay, so the idiotic thing I did this week and is a good one I took my son to see hoppers which is a new film from Pixar and My wife is like, are you sure like he's old enough because he's like four. was like, come on It's a Pixar movie. They're like whatever right? Of course I go there and you know, it's going well like perfectly I was like I'm a genius like he was laughing during the entire movie until the end were like then for the main character Paul (18:55) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Marc (19:14) And this is true, like, the bad guy is a robot and the good, protagonist, like, pulls his face off, right? The skin off his face, revealing his robotic eyes, and he's just laughing like an evil demon. yeah, like, exactly. And Felix, my son, was scared absolutely shitless, like, by that. Of course comes home, he's like, Daddy, I'm so scared, like, no one could leave, like, leave him alone and the entire... ⁓ Paul (19:28) Nuh-hah-hah-hah-hah-hah-hah-hah-hah-hah-hah-hah-hah-hah-hah-hah-hah-hah-hah-hah-hah-hah-hah-hah-hah-hah-hah-hah-hah-hah-hah-hah-hah-hah-hah-hah-hah-hah-hah-hah-hah-hah-hah-hah-hah-hah-hah-hah-hah-hah-hah-hah-hah-hah-hah-hah-hah-hah-hah-hah-hah-hah-hah-hah-hah-hah-hah-hah-hah-hah-hah-hah-hah-hah-hah ⁓ Marc (19:43) for the entire evening. Like he didn't want to go to the bathroom by himself. He wanted to go to bed ⁓ by himself, et cetera. My wife just looked at me. She's like, yeah, she's like, are you, she's like, you idiot. Like, congratulations. She's like, this is karma biting you in the ass. ⁓ Paul (19:48) Yeah, that is quite idiotic. I'm congratulated. You're not good. That's a ⁓ top one. That is nice. So on the Terminator side, and why do we do the Terminator, right? We do the Terminator because, you know, the Terminator is a bit of a play on the Austrian side of myself and Arnold here. It's something awesome that we saw that week and that we want to call out because we thought it was pretty fucking cool. And I'm going to pick, I'm going to stay on the same story because I told Hans, we talked about this, right? After, after this whole incident and he was like, I'm sure this is going to make it to the pot. And I said, yeah, I'm not sure if it's going to be the idiot or the terminator of the week. So, and because I'm not sure I'm making it both because I think he did well and he chose, you know, the happy wife, happy life ⁓ route, which in that case was the only smart thing to do. So very smart move. Terminator of the week, Hansi. Congratulations. Marc (20:46) ⁓ good for him. ⁓ I would like to shout out ⁓ a friend of mine, David Dini, who's also a listener. threw out, and he, yeah, he took our photos, right? And so he threw a 40th birthday party for his wife, and it was so fun and refreshing. And ⁓ the way, it was in an old ⁓ metalworking shop in Brooklyn, like a mechanic shop. Paul (20:56) he is a terminator. He's already been a terminator of the Wigs a second time. Yeah. Marc (21:15) and you walk in, it's this garage, you're like, what the hell do they do here? Right? And the owner, like, you know, turned the garage, like it's just really a workshop. And in the back is this amazing bar and then connected to it is this incredible dance floor with a fireplace and a DJ set that hangs by metal chains. And it was such a fun vibe. You know, I would say 50 people getting together, like everyone just cutting loose in all the fun ways. And so, Paul (21:18) That sounds awesome. Wow. Wow. Marc (21:44) Shout out to David Dini, was inspired by that. And that could be like an annual ritual. I would do that in New York. know, run out of garage, invite all your friends once a year. Yeah. Paul (21:52) Amazing. mean, David Dini, shout out to you, man. You're the first ⁓ person to receive the Terminator of the Week award twice. That is an accomplishment. You will get a certificate. What a sweet, short 22 minutes, my friend. Beautiful. Thank you. Have a great evening, ciao, or day. Bye. Marc (22:00) Yep. Cheers my friend, I loved it. Enjoy your dinner.