It’s Who You Used to Know | Ep 65

Paul (00:05) Welcome to guys like us. If you're new to this podcast, highly unlikely in episode sixty-five, believe it or not. This is the podcast about all the things that you start thinking about when you are in your prime, which some people still call midlife. Well, I guess it's what it is. But you hear Marc (00:21) It's for sure our prime. Come on. Paul (00:24) stories about family, leadership, relationships, friendships, fun nights out, in short, all the things that shaped us and continue to move us. And today. We're gonna speak about networking one year later because it was our episode ten that we shot in uh on the laurie side in New York City uh in September 2025. So let's see how it's gonna turn out for us a year later. Who's gonna talk to you? I am your co-host Paul, calling in from very frosty Vienna. Um I'm an entrepreneur, former executive, father of three. Um I can be anything of a networker, the one that runs away and the one that is entertaining the crowd. Marc (01:07) Ha ha ha. Paul (01:09) So I'm a bit of a chameleon, uh, but I never know who turns up. And I'm joined by our networking pro here, I would say, Mark. Marc (01:17) Ha ha ha. Hello. Um, happy to be here in New York where it's just beautiful. My God. Fall. I'm a uh Paul (01:25) Jesus still, that's a joke. Marc (01:27) no. It's I'm I'm uh we're look weather's been amazing. Entrepreneur, um, sometimes artist in residence of my own brain, uh loving people, father, father of two. Um by the way, I think we need to start drinking on this podcast again. You know, uh Paul (01:45) Yeah, because I'm having tea today. Marc (01:46) You're ha you're having tea. I'm having water. This podcast was a lot more off the rails, but um but this is a focused one 'cause we're talking about networking and and obviously we all love a glass of wine with it. Exactly. We'll s we'll stay tuned. Paul (01:56) We should have drank actually. We we should have done that. That was stupid. Okay, yeah. Marc (02:01) It's a good one. Paul (02:02) How's it going, my friend? Marc (02:04) Hey, how are you? Paul (02:06) I am to tell you very quickly as an idiot of the week, you know, Marc (02:11) Okay. Okay. Paul (02:13) I am making I'm transforming myself from the terminator of the week that allowed himself to go on the motorbike for a week on Mallorca to the idiot Marc (02:20) Yes, yes. Paul (02:21) because I I obviously wore too little clothes and it got too cold down about there. So I'm having real man pain at the moment. I'm actually sitting here with a what is this call? Uh Marc (02:33) a a uh a water the warm b it's Vanflash in German. It's uh right. Thank you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm just trying to sh I just I'm just trying to show off that I know that. So Paul (02:37) And we have a flashes, thank you, another dream word, Mothermacher. Is uh what is it, warming flask? Yeah, that's not helping though, you know. Marc (02:48) You know, it's like something go ahead. Paul (02:48) Anyways, I got this on my bat. I have a new idea. I want this to also wrap your you know, your stuff. That'd be really nice if you invented something like this, you know, like a balls warmer. Marc (02:54) Yeah. That's you know, by the way, a balls warm, you know what? A friend of mine just got a vasectomy and he was telling me that's what he's been wearing for two weeks, you know? Like a like Yeah. Yeah. That's the new business. uh Paul (03:07) A buzz warmer. Should you send me the fucking link, please? Yeah. So that's the that's the idiot of the week. It fucking sucks. but I'm great. Marc (03:18) Got it. Thank you for saving that. Wow, that's fun. Okay. And then uh and do you have a good Terminator thing for your for your week? Paul (03:24) now we are one week in with Lotti, the dog, and she's fucking awesome. I love this, I love this animal. She's very cute. Marc (03:27) oh nice. Nice. I love that. Okay. Good for you. Like new life new life as a you you keeper as a dog dad. Paul (03:35) As a dog dead. Like I'm I'm I'm It's the most dad move I've done. I mean already have three kids, but here we go. Like I'm I'm fuck it now. Fuck it. Yeah. How about yourself? Marc (03:43) Yeah, why not? Just go f just go for it. Yeah yeah. uh so okay, so if the door knocks and police come in to arrest me for child abuse, you know, that c that's a tension happen 'cause 'cause the teacher already called Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah. The tea the the teacher called Paul (04:01) Interesting episode guys here. Prostate, police. Marc (04:05) my called my my wife already. She's like Felix has scratches and like, you know, a big thing on his eye and um me as the idiot, uh we were in Central Park uh uh yesterday. Felix was rough Paul (04:19) Mm-hmm. Marc (04:19) housing with some kids who were you know, we're you know, scratching him and shit. And then we decided to play baseball. And of course, like I I I threw the ball, but like lightly, and he missed it completely and it smacked him right in the eye. So, you know, and the entire time I holding the baseball I was like, I think he's too young for this. So I'm just gonna quickly lob just like you know, because he was so excited. Paul (04:39) So wait, wait a second, you threw a baseball into his face. Marc (04:42) And my son's face. Yeah, basically that's it. Yeah. I mean it's a reality. And the teacher called Era Paul (04:45) Ha ha Okay. This is great. Marc (04:49) today. Yeah. She's like, Felix has scratches and a black eye, you know, like you know, doing her job. Yeah. Yeah. Paul (04:56) Good job. So I wonder what the Terminator then is. Also Felix. Felix actually. Or your wife. Marc (04:59) No, yeah, Felix should be like my son, it should be the turn. Ugh. I mean, she's she's that most days. No, I I wanna give it to um we threw a really incredible dinner uh on Wednesday and we hired this great artist, Trevor Paguin, to come in and speak about his work, which is so bananas and out there that um you know, it very rarely do you see like twenty executives getting their minds blown that like this kind of person exists, this is how he thinks about the world, etc. And so my shout out's gotta be for him. He was an amazing thing and he trusted us. So um yeah, it was super cool. Paul (05:35) Super cool. I wish I could have been there. Marc (05:37) You would have you would have loved it. Paul (05:39) Hey man, we have an interesting topic today. one we kind of picked up again because we did it already once, I thought about it because I went for lunch with a guy I hadn't seen for four or five years. So I thought about this. And then Marc (05:53) Okay. Nice. Paul (05:55) I kind of looked what we talked about and looked through some of the quotes. And I remember you saying in your modest way, you know, that you thought uh at least a year ago that you were at the top, at the pinnacle. Of your game, or we are in our age group when it comes to your network. And since you've, you know, ran your own business for almost a year now, I think starting February, right? I wanted to ask you how that's been going for you. If you still stand with this very bold, um or not so bold, but bit with this statement. I mean it's kind of a a segue, obviously, but you know. Marc (06:31) Yeah, I mean, well No, no, it's a good it's it's a decent one. I mean, I think like I uh the short answer is yes. I think like the the n it was a good test of my network. Also surprising about my co founder's network, to be honest, you know. Like I I thought I would be bringing in a lot of the um the firepower, but also she did as well. and uh I think she learned a lot about what it like discovering her own network. Cause I think when you have Paul (07:03) Mm. Marc (07:03) a new something new to say or a new conversation, you realize really quickly that a lot of people are curious and then would love to hear it. Um but it's been a um it's been a it's been a real journey and I you know, I think both in terms of testing the power of my network, but also understanding it's a good learning and also who will take a bet on you. Yeah. And who Paul (07:24) Mm-hmm. Marc (07:24) and who wants to wait and see. It's a different something slightly different, but it's Paul (07:27) And and that's what's interesting, right? I mean, when when you said this, you were, you know, at a at a very senior position in a very well known firm And then all of a sudden you're just Marc Winter. Has Marc (07:39) Yeah. Paul (07:40) has that you know has that changed, you know, who is calling Marc (07:45) no, it's totally fair. It's a good question. So I had a client when I told her my news that I was gonna go off, I'm gonna create something new. I mean, she said something I'll never forget. She said, you know, most people think I hire the firm I've never hired the firm. I hire the people. And people are often very confused by that. When someone comes from the other firm, they're like, we did such a great job. You know, this firm has done a great job for you before in the past, this, et cetera. And you realize that who cares about that, right? Right. Where's that where where where are those smart people that I love working with? Where are they now and how would Paul (08:16) Yeah, who cares about the firm? Yeah. Where's the team who did the work? Yeah, I want yeah. Hmm. Marc (08:23) I bring them in? And it was one of the bigger eye opening things for me who am I without this thing? And then you realize, God, it's so liberating to be able to tell your own story, but you just need to do the work of figuring out what that story is. So when you reintroduce yourself, people know and they're ready to respond to it. Paul (08:40) But do you think some some people dropped off your network because you were not, you know, that I mean if you give it Marc (08:46) No, I Paul (08:47) a percentage, I mean out of a hundred people, how many do you think would drop off? Would have dropped. Marc (08:51) I look, I I I I will say there were some which we call warm, you know, I know we have a our are versus close. Like Paul (08:57) Yeah. Yeah. Marc (08:59) like warm people who are like, Yeah, you know, great. Like the but they took the call, they wanted to hear what we're doing, but would never like follow up. They would just kind of ghost Yeah, whatever. Nice. Paul (09:06) Yeah, but it's fine. I mean it's like yeah, yeah. But there is stuff that you don't get invited to anymore, maybe, or or you know. Marc (09:12) Yeah, yeah. There the there's stuff don't know the budget for that, yeah, I'm not I'm too small on the list, et cetera. And like I just accept that because you're building something else. But what I think is really interesting, my biggest learning is after a year, there were some people, remember when I looked at my network, you know, you're like, okay, like like these will be for sure, like strong clients of ours, we'll set up, we'll grow, et cetera, and this kind of thing, right? And was not the case. What Paul (09:38) Mm-hmm. Marc (09:39) they wanted to do was make sure that. Mark was able to build something first, you know, of value. Test him, see that it works, and then make the bet, you know. Paul (09:50) Yeah, fair enough, because you know, people also have that that that's why, you know, big companies exist in their brand, because you you can't make a selection error. If something Marc (09:59) Totally. Paul (10:00) goes south, you can still say, But I chose XY and you know, this project was just shit, whatever happened. You know, and if they chose you, they would say, Yeah, but you chose some no name company, of course it goes haywire, yeah. Marc (10:12) Yeah, of course, of course, of course. But but let me ask you this. I mean, like like w we've talked a little bit about the kind of bit of the the disorientation of of stepping out on your own, finding testing your network either either as Paul, et cetera. But I I imagine you've been like really Paul (10:21) Yes. Yeah, let's get back to the topic, agree. Marc (10:26) well no, I mean I imagine you've been like really selective, right? Or you have the opportunity now to be more selective about who you build relationships with and and not, you know, vis a vis when you're shepherding and managing the reputation of a business. So just curious to see, like, has Has your approach shifted or changed now that's you're also now that you're doing what you're doing, which is trying to find companies to build and grow and nurture? Paul (10:50) I mean nothing's changed since last year where I basically said, you know, I had that shift where I I made the decision to only meet people that I really think I have I like to meet. And w Marc (11:01) Mm-hmm. Paul (11:01) in you know that sometimes when you open your calendar that you think, my god, I mean, do I really have to take this meeting? Right. But and I also learned that I think that about basically everybody on a Sunday evening or Monday morning. So I can't make decisions Marc (11:15) Mm. Paul (11:17) uh in those twenty four hours. Because if I did that I would have ne never have a meeting again. Marc (11:23) Ladies and gentlemen. Ladies and gentlemen, gruppy po like exactly. Like God. The you are you are so funny. Paul (11:33) I learned this about myself, right? I mean the joy filter Marc (11:34) Yeah, exactly. Paul (11:36) never doesn't work from Sunday noon to Monday noon. Yeah. If I had the power there to cancel all of my meetings, I would always do it. Always. Yeah. Marc (11:45) Really? my god. Paul (11:46) No, because I don't want I like I'm so at bliss in my peace and that everybody is uh is interrupting it, except you and our beautiful podcast that we're recording on a Monday. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Marc (11:53) Okay, good. Oh on a Monday. Exactly the one thing he can look forward to. Exactly. Paul (12:01) But other than that, um it has broadly worked, I would have to say. I would I'd have to say. And and I extended that rule a little bit with people whose names didn't give me immediate joy, let's put it like this. Marc (12:18) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Paul (12:19) But I thought that Me, our relationship deserves another chance. In Marc (12:28) Got it. Paul (12:28) the sense of that I thought maybe we never really connected. Maybe the last time we met, I was a bit my old me, and probably never really listened to that person. Um, you know. Uh, but I'm I'm still sticking to I'm not meeting with people who I think are jerks or or whatever you want to call them, because I think it's a waste of my time. So that has worked for me. Absolutely worked for me, and I'm sticking to that. Marc (12:52) Got it. I I have um unfortunately as a uh entrepreneur and as a business builder, I you know, uh as you can imagine, uh not everyone in your network is necessarily the nicest or the easiest person, right? Though they're all there because they have some value or put potential value to you in some Paul (13:11) Absolutely. Marc (13:11) way, right? And you know, it's funny, I was talking to um an advisor of mine who was has this no assholes rule, just like Mark, like like no assholes, right? Life is too short, etc. Paul (13:18) Yeah. I fully agree. Yeah. Marc (13:21) Right, exactly. I and th this is a totally weakness of mine. I would love to talk about, right? I find it in you know inconceivable, right, that people don't want to talk to me, that I have nothing of value to add. And that I will wear them down, right, till I have something of like like they're like, No, like I know I have something that you want to know about, right? And I will get you there so you can um recognize that. Paul (13:49) I will I will pull out every bullshit bingo card in my Marc (13:51) I don't know. Paul (13:53) arsenal, in my national library. And one will stick. Marc (14:01) Huh Something. Like like I know I I have well I have uh you know Paul (14:07) I think it's not a weakness, it's strength that you can't be deterred. Marc (14:10) Well, it it it it's funny, like this uh this uh this is like a long time ago. I remember I was in Berlin with this this qu CEO of Queen, she was lovely, and she told my my boss at the time. She said, Mark's incredible, like he just like he's just like a little dog. You know, he just like like you know, he just refuses to let go of the bone. And I think she meant it as a compliment. Paul (14:32) But I I really don't see this as a weakness, though. Marc (14:34) I think she meant it as a compliment, right? But it was just really funny. I was like, is that how you you can see but look it's And so I might spend a little bit of in order at time to get people there, you know, Paul, if that makes sense. Versus focusing Paul (14:44) It does. Marc (14:45) on deepening what's in front of me. But it's really Paul (14:49) No, but you know what? I am I mean the no asshole rule and and in the end what you know this bringing joy is is just the the positive you know version of that. And I would say there's like there's two levels to it, right? The the hardcore one is I'm never gonna meet with an asshole anymore. You know, I mean because Marc (15:10) Mm. Paul (15:11) one is meetings, business meetings you have, right? Let's say you have a meeting with your bank and the banks Marc (15:17) Yeah. Paul (15:18) manager comes and he happens to be an ass, right? So I'm gonna take that meeting, right? Because it's my bank and I need to talk to Marc (15:24) Course. Yeah, course. Paul (15:25) them. If you've really made it, you can probably really pull this. That's level two then to say, you know what, fuck it. I I'm not gonna be there if this fucker is gonna be there. So that's level two. But to me and you know taking a meeting with a person that I know, that happens, right? That happens because you might be part of a group or a group of investors where you know, there are 10 or 15 or 20 and one of them you don't like and you have an investors meeting, whatever that happens. But to me it's really about networking meet meetings that are meetings where I proactively reach out or somebody asks me to do that meeting. Right. I Marc (15:58) Mm, hm, mm. Paul (16:00) also find the proactive part easy, to be honest, because to me it's like and I wonder wh what do you think about I really don't do meetings, although I know these people have value and I could have value to them, well connected, whatever. I don't go there. Unless I find something else that I find fun in that or exploring why this person is messed up or is r is he really an asshole, you know. Marc (16:20) Yeah, there's something Yeah. There's some there's a curious Right, right, right, yeah. I I I I agree. Paul (16:29) How about yourself? Marc (16:30) No, I agree. I mean look, I think it's It's so challenging like for like when you meet these assholes, like I'm gonna meet one tomorrow. Like I can't wait. Like I'm meeting one tomorrow. Paul (16:42) Great Mike. That's that we probably have to cut out. Marc (16:45) No, no, no, but it's totally fine. Like like the like yeah, because I have a lot of meetings tomorrow. So this person will if they're they're listening, we'll have to figure it out. And uh and which is already great, right? And like it Paul (16:55) I love it. This is a great game. Marc (16:59) it it immediately and like part of the reason why I insisted to meet in person versus virtual, I was deeply curious. I was like, How does one become a dick? Like how does one just like show up this way, right? And and maybe that's It's it's a curious way of um of approach. And then also I feel like I can unlock and tweak more when I s when I see the visual uh and um unspoken cues in person, you know, to get to to where I want to go. But it's uh it's it's harder for me to keep the no asses rule assholes rule. And I think the game I would like to play is that I wish I had that power to enforce it. You know. I don't have it yet. Um Or maybe you're gonna tell me that I do have that power mark and you should just lean into it. But I imagined the day that I like, look, right now, unfortunately I th or or not. I think like a lot of my uh I'm trying to build uh I'm finding value in everyone despite of uh despite how um challenging they may be. And I think later in life it might shift it. Paul (18:02) Listen, a meeting is a in my opinion. In my opinion, a meeting, you know, where you need to get an intro to someone and and well that might be an unpleasant person, you know, fuck it. I would I agree. And I I I probably would do that for sure too if I was you, you know, if I needed that. Marc (18:16) Yeah, yeah. Paul (18:17) To actually go in business or work for somebody in your case that you really don't like, even though you n obviously everybody needs business, I would still be very um I would that's different. Yeah. Marc (18:26) No, that that's different. Full business I agree with. Yeah, Paul (18:29) That's Marc (18:29) yeah. Paul (18:29) that's different because I think in the end it hurts you more, not just because it's not pleasant, just because if you do things that you find unpleasant, I I don't think you will yield a great result. Marc (18:36) Totally. Totally. And I think like the no assholes rule f fails falls apart pretty quickly. And like would you you would obviously meet with Elon Musk, for example, right? Paul (18:46) Absolutely. the curiosity is trumping that. today, I get a lot of messages actually on LinkedIn right? You know, about Marc (18:52) Mm. Paul (18:52) hi, I just discovered you in my network, would you like to connect? It's like Marc (18:55) Yeah, I yeah yeah. Paul (18:57) yeah, whatever. But um do you do that too? I mean I wonder, do you have you ever called Marc (19:02) I was gonna Paul (19:03) outreach like this on LinkedIn? Marc (19:06) You know, um no, first of all, I mean I I do it rarely. So actually it's is this is such a timely episode. So I'm debating whether or not to promote my firm on LinkedIn, right? And part of me of the debate, right, there's the brand argument and then there's the number of synthetic relationships that I'll be getting, right? Like, hi Mark, I would love to connect with you now that I see X or Y. And is that the real metric? So I like I I've seen it work. And I I have it's worked out a few times. Someone's like reached out to me directly, okay, Mark, or this, et cetera. Like, you know, versus but I it's not my go to because I I find LinkedIn completely superficial. And it's a playground for for I mean, there's some things that are really I get some value out of it, but it don't you think it's mostly people either advertising what they're doing, it's so slopified. I can't even tell when people want to connect with me if they're an agent, you know, or not. And it all makes the case how to network properly, which I think is face to face and in person. And and you kind of convinced me this way. Remember when we did our friendship episode and and you we realized that like Mark's Paul (20:16) Yeah. I Marc (20:17) definition of a friend you felt was completely superficial and ridiculous. Yeah. Yeah. Well, Paul (20:20) Yeah, yes, I did. Yeah, yeah. Marc (20:23) I've been just reflecting on that a little bit because I no, I mean I've flown pla I fly places now to meet people for an hour, hour and a half. It's meaningful for them. They know that I've made that choice to come up to see them, right? And they know that, yeah, part of it is there's hopefully, you know, a financial reward at the end of that. That's part of the reason why you do that. But they also know that, like, I believe, Mark is my philosophy, that we're gonna have the best type of conversation and the best kind of interaction if we're sitting across a table and we can laugh a little bit together. We can s you know, we can have something that's that's human and that will linger past a call. Let me just put this the premium is now in that method of networking, in person, together, more focused, more meaningful. And I've learned a lot from a little bit of that challenge because I feel like at some point I was going a little too superficial. Paul (21:16) I'm happy for you. I and you're welcome. Marc (21:18) Yeah, exactly. Paul (21:21) the the thing that kind of was in my head when I thought about this topic in the last couple of weeks I was at a an event Two hundred people, a networking event if you want, right? I don't think I I made a follow-up with any person Marc (21:35) Anyone? Paul (21:36) that I didn't know before. So, but to me, I today I met someone I had met there, hadn't seen in five years. Then I had a call with someone very similar. Tomorrow or Wednesday, another lunch is happening like this. So I really reconnected with lots of people that I that I I activated again. Which by the way is also where LinkedIn helped me the most ever. Because Most of the the direct messages I get that I then also usually answer to because I'm really bad at that on LinkedIn is are people that somehow see a post that I do that I haven't seen in ages that just drop me a line saying, like NBA calls so fun, you know, you're writing about this. I'm just having something similar in whatever Brazil, you know, would you like to catch up? And and it's this reactivation of the dormant acquaintances Marc (22:26) Yeah. Paul (22:27) and network that I found super interesting. And I wonder how How that goes for you and yeah, go ahead and Marc (22:33) You know uh God. Paul (22:35) then I'll give you a some stats. Marc (22:37) No, no, I uh I want you to know the stats, but uh what like wow, you really picked a timely conversation. So I I first of all I do think there's a lot of gold, if you wanted to say, and I think for every everyone listening to this, like in people who you haven't um who've laid dormant in the past, like who are just like outside your friendship circle, like you know, like if you just reached out, assuming Now, they could be outside your s friendship circle for a reason, but I think actually in other cases I think by that I mean Yeah. Paul (23:14) I would challenge that in one out of ten cases that's maybe the case. Marc (23:18) So Paul (23:18) In nine out of ten, it's just because life happens. You probably went to school together, had great I mean, I have a Marc (23:21) Right, right, right. No, no, it's true. A hundred per Paul (23:24) bunch of people that I studied with twenty years ago that I basically haven't seen and who I know I would reconnect in a heartbeat. Marc (23:34) Yeah. Okay, well that's great. Yeah, no, no. But that's that's the interesting call. Yeah, no, I agree. Uh totally, Paul (23:37) And you too, I'm sure. And everybody probably does. Yeah. Marc (23:40) totally. Like who's doing interesting stuff? Who's like and not just doing, like we're just interesting people. And I'm I I haven't actually um even formally announced my company yet on LinkedIn, right? But now that I invested Paul (23:53) That's stupid. Marc (23:54) well, hold on. Well, now that I've invested in this dinner, right? Thank you, dude. I appreciate that. Yeah. Well, you know, a little bit I was trying to be everyone's uh best kept secret for a while. But now, like, I'm gonna like post about this dinner. I love how you mock my strategies. It's it's like that's catch secret. Fuck an idiot. Well, we're also software. Paul (24:12) You can do that for a bar or a restaurant, but not for fucking services firm. I mean anyways. It's great. Marc (24:19) Anyway, the headline is is that um uh we when when I posted this week, which I'll do I'll shall I'll do in a few days' time, I was just thinking like, my god, all these dormant revo Relationships might come up ac actually on LinkedIn like wow, that's super cool. You know, like this. And then I think that's yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Paul (24:36) No, you need to be ready for that. You need to be ready to engage with them um and and tell a story as you said before, right? And and also have the Marc (24:43) Right. Paul (24:44) capacity to engage. Because I I mostly don't have the capacity to engage. And I I I run around with a constant pit in my stomach because there's always one to ten people that I haven't replied to. Always. At any Marc (24:58) Yep. Yep. Paul (24:59) point in time. Ask me now, I can I would have to look it up, but it's for sure it's three. But you know what what you're saying? I think this is is interesting. I didn't know, but it there is actually a study that says that contacts you haven't spoken to in three plus years give people better and more valuable ideas and leads than current contacts and were also easier to ask. So I think to me that's a real takeaway also for me and I guess for everybody listening is to what I find really hard though, to be honest, is to sit down and resurface them. Marc (25:32) Yeah. my god, that's true. Well you built a Paul (25:35) Because Marc (25:35) CRM to do that, didn't you? Paul (25:38) Yes, but you also have to fill it with that information. You you also have to kind of give Marc (25:41) of course. Shit in, shit out, Paul (25:43) them, you know, w what is the you have to enrich a contact with the info that, you know, we started together at one point and I I really like this guy. And by that so so for for funny reasons, those kind of bigger events are kind of the the the places where you where I do reconnect. So to me Marc (25:56) Mm. Hmm. Mm. Paul (25:58) that's kind of a part of my strategy now. And um also to do those for that reason and to be totally happy if I haven't met anybody new. You know, w doesn't matter. Because I know all the meetings I did as a follow up to that, I would have never done I would have never thought today, you know, I went for lunch with Martin. I would have never thought about writing to him. Not because he's not nice, just because there's so much else going on. Sometimes you need those interventions, I think. Marc (26:27) Wow, it's Paul (26:28) I I also remember you saying in in our last episode, I wish I had a you know AI unfortunately can't really help me with with that because it's not that empathetic, right? Or it, you know, I tried to build something. So I wonder if it makes sense to kind of jump on this arc for a second, you know. What do you think this AI and software can help you in in this whole networking business? Or does it help you or do you wish you had something that made it easier for you? Marc (26:58) I think um here's what I'm gonna I'll just I'll answer that question by saying here's what I'm gonna prototype this week. I um have found c Claude particular very useful. So so check this out. I need to create a seating chart. I decided to do that for my dinner last week. Paul (27:20) Mm. Marc (27:21) I I said here's the guest list, here's all the LinkedIn profiles. Paul (27:23) That's great. I also was at a dinner with a seating chart. It was such a relief. Marc (27:29) Yeah, here's where you sit. I sat you here for a reason, right? And um whoever they came up with like like and Claude came up with a a point of view that was so which was just helpful. I was like, wow, I didn't even see this network like that, right? Here's Paul (27:46) Mm-hmm. Marc (27:47) what here's how you would do it, right? but it's just like those subtle cues, So you don't put like the t Paul (27:50) Yeah, fair enough. Marc (27:51) the two women, you know, and the all men's thing and the one corner of the table, that kind of stuff, like which are basic. But it was really interesting. Now, next thing I want to do is like, hey, who should meet each other? in my network that I haven't connected yet and why, based on what they do. And that to me Paul (28:05) And and you Marc (28:07) is really interesting. Paul (28:08) I agree with you, and that's where my CRM came from, right? You have to put a lot of work in to Marc (28:13) Mm. Paul (28:14) populate that system with, information that is actually valuable so it can draw those conclusions, right? But it can Marc (28:20) Do you yeah? Paul (28:21) search on LinkedIn and stuff of every profile. Maybe I I'm gonna have to give it another try because I still think there is something in there. There is absolutely no value I I want to say this in automatic reach out on LinkedIn. I think this is the dumbest shit ever. Yeah. Marc (28:33) No, no. And it well, I mean, I think we're just we're just not that. tell me. Paul (28:38) And you know what's another interesting f fact, you know, is that your closest friends actually give you the least amount of network value. It's Marc (28:51) I a hundred percent agree with that. You've been useless. I haven't met anyone through you. Paul (28:57) It's true. Marc (28:58) I haven't helped you either. I bet well maybe try I try to make one Paul (29:02) Yes. We both sucked at it by the way in following up. I'm sorry for that. Uh I I'm gonna call you buddy. But yeah. Marc (29:06) Yeah. Yeah yeah yeah. Yeah and and uh that was a genius one too. Yeah, exactly. Paul (29:11) That was good. Yeah, I'm useless and and I think but that's it's not me, you know, it's how things are, you know. So we can feel better about this, yeah. Marc (29:18) Right. Yeah. And also Yeah, yeah, I know, it's true. That's a gr great data point. Yeah. Paul (29:24) Hmm. And then we talked about this a little bit before, but have you lately been uh have you uh have you become important enough that people ask you for favours and that people are working you Marc (29:45) Yeah. Yeah, of course. Why? Paul (29:50) No, because I wanted to ask you how that feels for you. Marc (29:52) Is that a is that is that a strong match? I um You know, I My my way of operating around the world is to be very generous, right? If people are genuinely asking me for favor, like if if they're sneakily trying to like put fake stuff on there to eventually ask me what they really want to ask me is like, can you make this introduction or give this stuff? I will I will I will they're most of the time they're they're not very they're not very um senior, right? It's like they don't know actually how to be very direct. So I will I will solve them I'll save myself and them the trouble. I was like, Oh, listen, I don't really have time to do all these things, this these coffees, et cetera. But if you want an introduction to this, write me a blurb and I'll make it for you. Right. Like that kind of thing. Paul (30:45) But you're answering, you're not ghosting them. Marc (30:48) No. I answer them. I answer them. Like if they're but I the only people I really ghost are people I don't know on LinkedIn. That's it. Paul (30:57) Fair enough. That's that's actually the best use for AI in this context is to answer all these AI bots, but then the question is what for, right? Really. Marc (31:04) I'm gonna send them to you. Paul (31:06) Hey listen, I know we are tight on time, but I wanna play a quick game with you before we end, because that could be fun. You know, it's an it's an either or A or B game, you know. Yeah, we are bringing them back. That's what we're doing actually, you know. We are bringing them back those games. Okay. So I'm just gonna Marc (31:10) Ooh. Are we gamey finding Oh we should have brought these back. These are great. Yeah. Alright, good. Okay. Okay. Paul (31:23) say, you know, the A or B and and and maybe at the same time we answer, yeah, three two one and we answer. Okay. So Marc (31:28) Okay. Go, go, go. Paul (31:32) at a at a networking meeting, you know, you go for lunch, you arrive A early or B late? Marc (31:38) Irving. You? Paul (31:41) Early, but I don't believe you. But okay. Marc (31:43) Yeah. No, for for Paul (31:47) Okay. Marc (31:47) lunch for any meetings, I was to drill this like like like for for especially people you didn't know always early. Five minutes early. You're there. Paul (31:54) okay, so now I know how much you value our relationship. Okay, that's great. Okay. Marc (31:57) What uh Paul (32:00) When you when you get to a networking event, you grab a drink first or you start talking right away? Same here. Man, that's boring. Marc (32:06) Grab a drink first. Yeah. Paul (32:09) Okay. at a networking event, would you leave after one good conversation or stay longer uh to to make the most of it out of it? Marc (32:18) Stay longer. Paul (32:20) Leave after the first good conversation. Marc (32:21) Yeah, I knew that. Exactly. You were like, it sucks. Like, let me just get out of here. Done. You actually you're waiting. Like, I know when you get to those events, you're waiting for the first good conversation you can have so you could get the fuck out of there. I already know that about you. Yeah, exactly. You're like done. Like like the terminator Paul (32:34) Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Marc (32:38) terminated it. Exactly. Check. All I need is one. Paul (32:42) Yes, it's is is a great relief actually. Okay. Um business card or find me on LinkedIn. Marc (32:50) fuck off. You know, it's find me on LinkedIn. Paul (32:53) Is it? Okay, me too. if you wanna meet somebody, is it coffee at eight or drinks at ten? Marc (33:00) Obviously drinks. Paul (33:02) Coffee for me. Yeah. Marc (33:03) Really? Actually, you know, if it's someone new, coffee. Coffee, actually. I'm with you. Paul (33:08) I don't like work things in the evening anymore. Fucks up my sleep and I don't think I c you can't really get the fuck out if it sucks either. Marc (33:21) Yeah. Paul (33:21) I mean to me in the evening a dinner is really with somebody that's more friendly, like friendshipy in in a sense, and I really want to reconnect also on a personal level. If it's a pure business thing, I would never say evening. Marc (33:34) Got cool. Paul (33:35) All right. Um, walk into the group or wait at the edge? Marc (33:42) I used to be wait at the edge. I'm now walking to the group. I wanna get this over with when I can, you know, and make sure this is good. What about you? Paul (33:50) I am more a waiting at the edge type, but as I go through the drink first, I then become a walk into the group person very quickly. Marc (33:57) Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah. I could just you're like you know you're like a little dog. It's just sniffing like, okay, where where is the the actual useful person, the non idiot I could speak to so I could get the fuck out of here. Paul (34:12) Exactly. Which is which is a good next one. Cue for the keynote speaker or skip this person? Marc (34:19) Uh I if it's an interesting speaker, I'll s I'll cue. Paul (34:23) Have you ever cued for the keynote speaker? Marc (34:26) Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Well I know. That's you. Yeah. Paul (34:27) I've never done this in my life. But that's me. I'm proud of you. I mean sometimes probably makes sense. It's it's it's good on you. It's good. Marc (34:34) No, I mean like I'm I made the time there. I always have to remind myself, every time I want to bail, I'm like, this took forever to get here. I invested the money, I might as well just fucking stay, you know? For somebody's Paul (34:44) Yeah, see I'm the see uh uh okay. G I'm the opposite. Anyways, um ask Marc (34:48) I don't know. Paul (34:50) the favor in message one or message five. Marc (34:54) Uh five. Paul (34:56) Really? I'm in message one. Marc (34:59) Uh, uh Paul (34:59) I became that more because I'm like it's I've or three, you know. Or but but Marc (35:02) No. I mean message five is crazy. I'm I I'm like message message three. Yeah. Three. I'm a three or Paul (35:07) but I find it's so much straightforward, especially if you haven't spoken to us. Anyways, it's clear what g what that it is w about what it is. It's like I what I do and that really works for me, at least how I feel about it, is like, hey, you know, I know we haven't spoken in a long time and I need XYZ, I thought of you and it's also a great opportunity to finally reconnect. We haven't spoken for way too long. Blah Marc (35:34) Yeah yeah. Paul (35:35) blah blah. So you kinda com combine the two. Marc (35:38) Look, I think what I've learned I mean, in America you can message one pretty quickly. What I've learned in Europe at least in doing business, at least in my experience, there's gotta be a lot of trust first before you're asking any favors. But clearly you've hacked that. Paul (35:52) Well, fair enough. I mean, but think about, you know, this reconnecting to the dormant network kind of thing. I think that's Marc (35:59) Mm. oh Paul (36:00) when that happens the most because this is how you think of people then all of a sudden, because someone Marc (36:04) Sure. No, totally. Paul (36:05) and in this case I would say sh straight shooting. Yeah. Okay. Marc (36:08) Cool. Okay. Cool. Paul (36:11) So uh you know this scenario we had it last time? Someone who won't leave your side or you know, you are on the seated dinner and the person next to you really is talking too much or just talking shit. Do you tell them straight or do you kind of pretend to take a call or you need to piss or go to the buffet? What do you do? Marc (36:28) my god, I I'm totally the last. I like I'm like, Oh, someone called and I leave immediately. Paul (36:35) Yeah, but at a seated dinner I've had this once that the person Marc (36:36) Huh. Oh. Paul (36:38) there was a person like a few seats away and and dominating the conversation with such shit. It was really hard to get out. I was just waiting for the dessert when they were switching uh chairs again. Marc (36:51) Yeah. Listen, I think uh I I I hear you completely the seated dinners are really tough that way. Uh or I just get really drunk. You know, be like, okay. What's the other there's the other option? Paul (37:03) Fair enough. I mean, coming to that. D uh dinner for eight or conference for eight hundred? Marc (37:08) Eight, eight, it's already eight. It's gotta be. Paul (37:11) man, you really changed, huh? Marc (37:13) Yeah. I I I think s I think I've I'm I'm getting exhausted by the uh I I'm now I'm now looking in one year I'm looking for deeper meaningful Partnerships. Paul (37:29) Love people or selectively extrovert? Marc (37:33) Love people. Yeah, I know, I know. Paul (37:34) Oh see, that's I'm different. I'm selectively extrovert. All right, man. This was fun. Marc (37:37) Yeah, you know, actually I this was a great moment to s to step back and um I had a great time. Paul (37:45) We're talking about stepping back, what are we taking away? Marc (37:47) it's a couple things. There's quality over quantity that that we've always known. But I think there's the how I think in this moment people really appreciate when you intentionally built a relationship with them versus a very transactional piece, which I think scale was very kind of how it was done in the past. That's one. Another is I think about if you want to grow your network, the number of people who already know who probably like you and would love to hear from you is there. You just need to intentionally think through about how to best map them out. And the third I would say is um have at least one to two really good glasses of wine before going into the circle so you can be at the top of your game. Paul (38:29) This is amazing. I have nothing to add. I mean, the the one thing I'm really gonna do is trying this reactivation of dormant network kind of business. Marc (38:36) I think it's a really smart man. Yeah. Paul (38:38) And kind of set myself a goal that and also don't go too much because I I find that networking takes away a lot of time. It it is exhausting. Marc (38:46) it's a while it's it's exhausting. It's it's energetic. Paul (38:48) I mean, uh thinking about it, doing it and so on, do two reconnections a month and you're awesome. Do one a month and it's fantastic. Marc (38:58) Wow. I feel like I'm like motivated by a coach. It's awesome. I like this, Paul. Good seeing, buddy. Paul (39:03) Alright. Okay. Good. Have a great day, my friend. Dude, Marc (39:08) You too.