Talk to Your Kids After You Die? | Ep 45

Marc (00:05) well to guys like us. If you're new to this podcast, this is the podcast about the things you start thinking about when you are in your prime, which is obviously midlife. ⁓ you will hear stories about family, readership, relationships, friendships, fun nights out. And in short, the things that shaped us and continue to move us. ⁓ and you're also gonna hear some fun existential type conversations, like like the one we're about to have today. Because in today's episode We're gonna talk about building your digital twin. I am your host, Mark Winter. I'm a conceived artist, entrepreneur, husband, father of two, based in beautiful sunny New York. And I'm joined by my dear friend Paul. Paul, where are you? Paul (00:48) I am sitting in beautiful sunny, although the sun has gone down Vienna and amazing summer day today. I am a former CEO, ⁓ divorced father of three and I'm real. You know, it's really me, right? So this is not the avatar of Paul. It's the OG. ⁓ Marc (01:07) that's a great intro. Paul (01:08) And I'm super and I'm really, really excited about this because I'm also a big lover of rabbit holes and one of them, as you probably already know, is AI. And this is obviously very much connected to that topic. So I'm curious what Mark's gonna make out of this. Marc (01:23) I'm curious about that too. But you know, before we get started and and dive in, how are you? All good? How was your week? Paul (01:31) Not as good as you, because you're having a beautiful glass of wine I see there. What are we having? Finally! Marc (01:38) I'm yeah, finally I've decided that we're only gonna do record on Friday afternoon so I can drink. I'm having a a very fresh Abarino from Galicia. Paso Tarado. The kind of the kind of bottle you probably you have three of at lunchtime. Paul (01:48) Mmm, I'm having an alcohol-free beer. I did not. I was just in a very good mood. I'm having a really nice alcohol-free beer. It's my third actually. Because I've had, to be honest, a really tough week. Dinners, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, yesterday. And then I had a surprisingly boozy lunch today. So it's been quite a week, to be honest. I'm trying to sleep finally. But it was fun. Marc (02:20) Well, it's good to see you again 'cause it's been it w we skipped a week in recording 'cause I w I was in Bogota for a wedding. ⁓ Paul (02:28) And I was fly fishing in Styria. So we had quite opposite weekends, I would say. Oh, yes. Oh, man. Marc (02:32) my God. Yes we did. Yes we did. ⁓ well it's good to it's good to catch up with you because actually ⁓ this is a topic that's been really fresh and and at least in my circles and and top of mind. I mean, I think we've been ⁓ really exploring all kinds of dimensions around AI, but the ones that are most fascinating Me right now is this idea of of a digital twin. And just to be really clear about what that means, that is basically replicating yourself right in the in the digital space by creating a ⁓ an a an agent that talks like you, thinks like you, has your tone, ⁓ can frame questions like you, et cetera. And currently it's it's being done in the workforce, and there are a lot of AI native organizations that are trying to build that and claim that. you have some enterprise organizations like S like Siemens, I think, which is, you know, very proud of what that does, but probably puts a lot of guardrails on what that means. And you have others that are really thinking like Zuckerberg, I think, that's thinking about, you know, longevity, right? Like let me just, you know, be Paul (03:41) Yes. Yeah, but he also is thinking about, think he wants to have, he wants to give all the, what it is at 79, 80,000 meta employees, the possibility to pitch him an idea and to give them feedback, number one. And he also wants the AI to handle things like whether you get a promotion or not, which, okay, we can come to this later. I find it a little bit crazy. And when, you know, coming in, this is actually true. There is this, it was the CEO of some asset manager actually, who did the same C2, he's called, of a 25 billion bank. He led an earnings call for 30 minutes before revealing it was a bot. That's crazy. mean, apart because it's not just a chatbot that talks to you, but you can actually make them really talk. Technically, they speak like you, they hear and then even with the holograms. Marc (04:29) So fucking crazy. Paul (04:43) you would even look like it. it's nuts, but you're closer to this. I've never actually seen it. I've never seen a... Have you seen a... Not the physical, because you can't touch it, but you know the... In picture and in voice, a digital twin of a person? Yet? In your life? Yes? Marc (04:59) Yes. They showed it they showed it at ⁓ yeah, I was at a the summit, ⁓ a summit or off site called Summit, funny enough. And they they had some fun shit like that, which was pretty cool. and mind blowing, by the way. Mind blowing. Yeah. I w you know Paul (05:13) Wow. ⁓ No, totally. So let me ask you. Sorry, Mark. Sorry. Let me ask you one thing. If you know, let's walk through a typical week of ours and let's think what would we outsource to a digital twin? Wouldn't that be a fun start to this? Or maybe not. Marc (05:19) Yeah. No, no, go ahead. Kind of X source? So is the if the exercise is like if we're creating a digital twin for our personal life and and professional, what are we outsourcing? Paul (05:49) Yes. Marc (05:50) Right. Paul (05:52) Yeah, exactly. Marc (05:53) I I love it. Okay. So all my weekly planning with my wife around my kids programming would be great if our agents just figured out what to do, right? ⁓ even buying and cooking, even buying from the supermarket, like on like what to make for for dinner, like they know me well enough, like to to to go out, understand you know, what's on sale at Whole Foods, etc. Just compile it, you know? Paul (06:04) 100 % Yeah. Marc (06:22) What wine Paul (06:23) Yeah. Marc (06:23) to to get? Great. We don't want to think about it. what else? Calendaring with the wife, et cetera. ⁓ on the personal side, I also think like social calendaring would be a lot of fun. Like friends I haven't seen for a while, but need to reconnect with again, you know. ⁓ it's ad hoc, but like they can see the pattern. It's like, Mark, you haven't, you know, seen Faye and Krista in a while. Like you should, you know, schedule a date. You like them? Great. Do that, you know. ⁓ so some maybe some social calendaring would be fun. Paul (06:55) But it's like an assistant. You wouldn't have your digital twin actually reach out to your friends. Marc (07:03) No, I would have them reach out to their friends, like ⁓ bots, their agents, right? And they would schedule us together at a place we like. Paul (07:10) And they would schedule you. Okay, but that's an assistant. Okay, but that's not a digital twin. That's an assistant. Marc (07:13) Fine, but it's still but it's no, no, no, no, no, no. But it's still proactively knowing like, you know, ⁓ monitoring my relationship health with different friends, right? It's saying, you know, imagine there was a bar of like healthy to low healthy of people you liked, you know, and you would just be like, Okay. You fucking Of course you are. That's your personal CRM? ⁓ That's so cool. That's so cool. I'm proud of you. Paul (07:29) I'm building that at the moment. I'm building exactly that. Yeah, exactly that. It went live today, but it's still super buggy. But I'm doing that all the time. Marc (07:43) I better be I better be one of the healthiest bars, my friend. Otherwise I'm gonna be jealous. Paul (07:47) No, no, no, it actually has a thing in there. have for every contact in there, I can set the value to cadence of how often I want to speak with them. And the bot reminds me in the morning of overdue people. That's one of the features. Yeah, yes. Marc (07:55) Right. Shut the fuck up. No way. Are you are you tying your phone records to that or not? Paul (08:07) Yes, no phone is good. WhatsApp and email. WhatsApp and email, not phone. That's a good point. Thank you. Coming into the backlog. Yeah, I need to time my phone records into that 100 percent. Marc (08:13) What's up? Okay. You are ⁓ F some free free AI consulting right there. There you go. Exactly. ⁓ Paul (08:29) Yeah, here you go. Yeah. Okay. So that's okay. I understand the scheduling. want I mean, there's really very little things 100 % so yeah, do it doing accounting 100 % sitting or together with my ex wife and talking about the next weekends and days and scheduling kids is one of my least favorite activities in the world. Vacation planning is even worse on that. Where's the kids when I hate I really Marc (08:35) And then bills, by the way, can we just add bills? Financials. I don't want to think about finances. Right. a lot vacation planning. Paul (08:58) Do not. Yeah, I like that too, but I don't know. Don't like when do you have the kids when you have this is not fun. to be doing. Marc (09:03) Yeah, of course. Paul (09:07) What else? Meetings, dude, meetings, meetings. ⁓ I was in a one day long workshop yesterday that could have been easily handled, easily handled by my digital twin. Actually, I would even say better if you prompted him right, you know, or more than me or better. Marc (09:07) Then like if I were to take it professionally, here's that's where I was gonna go. Like Ha. Paul (09:33) Not that I didn't care, don't get me wrong, right? Marc (09:35) So Paul, just for our audiences like a what is the strategic importance of having a digital twin? Paul (09:43) the better your twin is replicating you, the more it can take decisions like you. Right. I mean, you can basically, you know, clone yourself if you want. Marc (09:51) Right. Paul (09:54) As a quick example, what I am building right now all of the things that I do professionally, I documented really well and well structured now in an ocean database, for example, right? Where I have all my different projects, where I save all my to-dos, where I also mostly save all my meeting transcripts. And I give you an example because you brought me this plot. AI thing, right? So if you do, if I have this thing do a, and it's a recording device that, that records a meeting in a good audio quality and then it basically uses a service to transcribe those meetings and then to summarize them, right? I find the summary is really shit. You know why? Because they lack context. They don't really know what you're talking about. So you know what my thing does? It takes a transcript from plot. It sends it into notion and then ask. Marc (10:23) Mm. Yeah. Paul (10:49) Claude to read the transcript but also read all the project description around it and the other old meetings and then create a summary which obviously is a thousand times better because it knows what's going on. It knows what happens before and so on and the same thing is true for your digital twin so in a sense I'm creating my digital work twin at the moment Marc (11:02) Wow. I I think I need you to come out to New York as soon as possible to consult my my AI operations. I'm so always so impressed every time I chat with you. Okay, but like but at the headline here is like it's a scale game, right? This is this is scaling Paul across multiple fronts. That's what it is, right? And you're just training yourselves to scale, right? So what in any context. So so whether it's your home and your work, wherever the fuck, right? Like you are Paul (11:24) Yes. Yes. Absolutely. 100 % agree. Yeah. You can do more as a single person. You can do more, which I think is an interesting has an interesting connotation of life, right? Because we think that's great that we can do more because we think productivity is great. So it has a bit of a funny angle there, right? Marc (11:52) That's right. A hundred percent. And so like, you know, one of my I think I might have mentioned this before, but like one of my favorite provocations around digital twins in the workplace, right? It's like what if I like ⁓ brainstorming with Paul Paul's digital twin? Let's call him Paul Bot, you know? Because Paul Bot sh gives me a little bit more empathy. Paul Bot tells me that my ideas are smart, you know. He's what a great idea, Mark. It's awesome, you know, even though it's stupid, but it doesn't matter, right? Like Paul (12:14) Yeah, yeah. Yeah, no, but that would be a really bad digital twin. That would never happen. Marc (12:26) Yeah. Exactly. Paul's digital twin would be like Paul's digital twin be like it was like that's okay. Like at best. Exactly. I'm predisp I've been programmed to to yeah. Paul (12:31) Yeah, okay, but keep on going, yeah. Yeah, exactly. That's okay. That's a two out of ten. Congratulations. This is the best shit you ever came up with. Marc (12:45) Exactly. He's like, hey, I'm predisposed to think you're an idiot, by the way. Like programming. Moving that way. ⁓ Okay. No, no, no, no. We're getting but basically but but basically, I mean I I it opens up a lot of philosophical questions about IP, about ownership, like who owns an idea if you're digital twin, you know, for brainstorming the next great Paul (12:51) Exactly. Okay, but keep on going. Sorry. I was interrupting you. Marc (13:11) Product, software product, car, who knows whatever, right? And your digital twin c helps me as a human shape that idea. Who gets the credit? Both of you? Paul (13:22) Good question. Good question. Yeah, who gets it? The LLM provider or was it actually your prompt and context that made it happen? Super interesting. Marc (13:25) You're not there. Sounds so easy. Yeah. Or in the future, if you do a sale between agents and human, ⁓ which is entirely possible, right? who gets who gets credit there? You know, are we g charging a premium for the human? But really it's the agent can easily, you know, more accurately describe value potentially. Paul (13:43) Yeah. Yeah, that's interesting. I don't know if you wanted to get to that, but that's what I thought was, how would you feel if I said, hey man, I actually like Markpot a lot better. I'd rather talk to Markpot than to Mark. How would you feel about this? Not Markpot, real Mark. Marc (14:11) Okay. ⁓ I would feel first of all really pissed off and hurt, but also here's here's I was thinking the same thing. So we've all been ⁓ we've all experienced when one of our male friends has ⁓ d dropped off the plane, it became less fun for a lot of reasons, you know, like you know, the one you loved was ⁓ you had kids, a a wife that sucked, ⁓ Paul (14:34) Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Marc (14:40) girlfriend that sucked, a job that like swallowed him whole, you know? And suddenly like you can talk to, you know, two thousands mark, you know, when he was fun and and inventive and creative, you know, versus the shell of a human he became when he he made the wrong decisions in life. How crazy is that idea? Paul (15:02) That was your thought. It's like, I want my friends back. I want my friend back. Listen, man. I mean, you've become a boring motherfucking idiot. I want the old version back. Can we? Exactly. Can we? Can I rewind maybe for five, six years? That is funny. I like that one. No, but I think seriously, there is something like this. It's almost like an identity crisis, right? I mean, if your digital twin is more fun, more loved than you are, that must be really shit. Marc (15:09) Yeah. Like like like it's kinda cr motherfucker. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. When you made inappropriate jokes, we Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Paul (15:33) The other thing that I thought is, what do you think a digital twin can never do? And you're right, the physical examples were not smart from my end, but on the interaction side. Marc (15:51) Yeah, I mean I I think this is where it gets a little bit scary. ⁓ I mean to be honest. You know, the the technology is advancing so fast, the mimicry is getting so good. But you know, I spoke to a native, ⁓ an AI native, sorry, like a entrepreneur for ⁓ kind of a therapist company. You know, it was basically creating A bots for for therapy or agents for therapy. And he basically said, you know. ⁓ they can mimic three things. One reasoning to sh like ⁓ empathy really well, but they can't mimic shared consciousness. So for example, if you can ask if I asked Paul Paul bot ⁓ Paul, what does it mean to love? You'll give me the Paul Bot will give me a a beautiful summary, right? Of you know Potentially the best lines of poetry, the best from the best films, because you've s you know, you've seen them all. They've been ingested in your brain, you know. And they'll play back to me in your own tone and your own wit, you know, whatever, right? Is a way that and maybe from your own experience complimented from that. But you will never be able to say, like, it's that moment when X happened, you know? Do you know what that feels like, et cetera. Which is I think a shared experience. Paul (17:17) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Marc (17:23) I don't know. Th that that's where I would go. Paul (17:23) Yeah, no, no. Yeah, I was also where I would go. Probably I was thinking, you know, the therapy setting was a great example. Obviously, like, you know, with any camera or heat sensors, you could really also look at the person who is in therapy and analyze a lot of things. I'm not sure that we are capable of expressing everything that we as humans actually put into an interaction or thought of an idea because I think there's lots of subconscious in there. So yes, something that is triggering my subconscious, feeling of energy or no energy or positive energy. You know what I mean? All these things, they might come from a visual cue and a move, but I'm not sure we can actually surface this to an AI and say, yeah, you know what actually just happened? I had a subconscious source thought because this guy twinkled with his eye. Marc (18:00) Mm. Paul (18:22) don't know that because it is subconscious. So can we capture the subconsciousness somehow and then then put that in. But then if you think of what Elon is doing with this thing, you know, in your brain stem, your neural link or whatever it's called. I mean, maybe that's exactly doing that. I don't know. I'm not as deep into the project, but that's what I think right now. And I find it hard to understand. If it's not just about the cognitive. It was about feelings, about intuition that you can actually copy that. Marc (18:58) it's it's it's really hard. And I you know, and and thank God because I mean th that's one thing it can't do, you know, is is a little bit of my my feeling here. Like ⁓ the it can describe the feeling of a a beautiful evening with friends and and in through language, but we'll never give it meaning. And I think that's the difference. Actually, it's between language and meaning. ⁓ it's a master of language, not of meaning. And we are blessed enough Paul (19:25) Yeah, that's beautiful. That is true. Marc (19:28) And but we are blessed enough to to understand the difference of that, right? As like as ⁓ you know, people who grew up in the eighties and nineties. But ⁓ I worry for our kids, to be honest, ⁓ on that, because it's that's where it gets really challenging to really segment, understand the difference that this thing is not there's no meaning. There's a lot of empty words behind what's played back. Paul (19:38) Yeah. man, listen, I listened to the other day. listened to a podcast of again, think Scott Galloway was in diary of a CEO. I mean, we talked about him and his book and, and, so on. And he's like, what he's worried most about is the fact that especially young men in this case again, but young people in general, because they lead so many relationships online and, or with an AI that never talks back and so on that you get what you want basically that. ⁓ Marc (20:20) Totally. Paul (20:20) We basically did have no resilience in the sense of no one has ever told them no. And when they go out in the real world and someone says, no, they either retreat or get aggressive or whatever. But because, ⁓ and he says, that's what he does with a lot of the young exactly. That's exactly the point. Marc (20:35) Or don't try again. Let me ask you this. Because we're on the topic of kids. ⁓ and I had this conversation yesterday with some friends and and the answers were very different. So Paul (20:42) Mm-hmm. Marc (20:49) God forbid something happened to you. Would you ever make a digital twin of yourself that they could talk to at any point in time, you know, post your Untimely demise. Paul (21:03) Today I would say absolutely not. Marc (21:08) Hmm. Hmm. Interesting. Why? Paul (21:10) I would say absolutely not. Because I think that my untimely demise will be the universe's plan to, you know, for them, I don't know, not have a father. It is what it is. And I don't think ⁓ taking away their opportunity to learn to deal with this by giving them a digital twin is going to help them in any way. Actually, quite to the contrary, is exactly what we just talked about, taking away an opportunity to learn resilience. Marc (21:53) So I I have a very different perspective. I think it might be no no no I'm not that I'm right wrong. It might be our d duty to do that in the future as parents. Very much like we create life insurance. I can imagine that being a thing in the future. And here's why, like so you know, I I had ⁓ both my parents, they lost their parents at early ages. So my dad lost his mom at twelve and my mom lost her dad at eight. Paul (21:56) Please enlighten me. Marc (22:23) I can tell you for like, I mean, the scars of that loss still carry, you know, sixty sixty plus years on, you know, seventy years on. And you know that like all they wanted to do as they were growing up and navigating and yearning for was the ability just to talk to their dad or their mom, you know, who they lost. And I think now that if you have the technology to do that, why wouldn't you make that available? And it's not and and I will say that that needs guardrails for sure. Like it's not, you know, God forbid, like, you know, you get addicted to talking to a version of mom that doesn't grow with you or wax the context of it. But if you, you know, wanted to know what your dad would have thought about this moment or your mom would have thought about this moment if you're making a career or choice, you just wanted to have that kind of security with that type of technology. I mean, I I think it's To me a no brainer. Again with Godrails as a codrails. Paul (23:25) Really, I don't ever remember being of such a different opinion than you, other than maybe on some specific foods. ⁓ No, think your parents wouldn't have been better off with the technology, in fact. I think they would have been worse off. I think they would have been better off if they had had someone who helped them deal with that loss in a proper way and not probably not told you, dad, you know, now you have to be a man, grow up. Marc (23:32) ⁓ Yeah. Paul (23:55) Yeah. Or something like this that they probably said in the sixties. I don't know. I'm just saying this. So, ⁓ so maybe it is our responsibility not to create a digital twin, but to have, you know, friends around us who, when this really happens, where we know that our kids can go and that they grow up with the same set of values and, and things and help them through this pain and help them grow through this pain. and, and, and there is something about obviously keeping things for your kids and writing things down. think that's a beautiful thing. So they have something, right? And I think our own mortality makes us do that too. If we take our own mortality away, I wonder if we actually think that we should ever sit down and reflect what we want to leave our kids because we're gonna be there anyways all the time, if digital or not. And that's actually one of the things, if you take that point away that you're gonna be gone at one point, Do you actually even ever stop and reflect and share, know, or prepare to share? Marc (24:57) Well, l like I said okay, that's fair, but I think still think it's still not you, right? And I think like with the right education, I think it's it's not I think my favor my phrase of the year, two things can be true. You can be dead and your wisdom can live on in an interesting new way that you could be that ⁓ can your children have access to. And it's a different way of storytelling. You know, like what's a memoir? What's the difference between a memoir that, you know, distills all your life, ⁓ you know, your wife lessons and a agent that basically captures all that plus that. Paul (25:22) Y-yes? A lot. A lot, a lot, because it doesn't pretend to talk to you. I'm not, you can do a multimedia memoir of yourself where you tell stories about your life or stories about joint experiences and how it was when you were born. And you can access this through different channels on your phone by asking Alexa. don't give a fuck, but the second you say dad, you know, I had a bad day today. I really missed you. How are you doing? and that thing talks back, that's not your memoirs. That is an LLM trying to make, finding the most probabilistic answer, to your prompt based on all the things it has saved. And that is wrong. I mean, it's not wrong, wrong, but I don't think it helps anybody. Marc (26:16) Right. Well well hold on. Hold on, hold on. That that that's no no no. That that that is a prompt where you're pretending that your dad is still alive. The different question I would say is Paul (26:32) Yeah, this is a digital twin. mean, sorry, but that's the definition of it. Bless you. Right? The other thing is a museum piece, is an installation. Marc (26:39) No, no, no. But but but it's not it's not hold on, hold on. I I think I think you're I think you're conflating two ideas. A digital twin is not meant to be that like, hey, I'm talking to Paul, the real Paul, at all times. A digital twin is a replicant, right? And I think as humans we know that we're supposed to know the difference, right? Like I think in the future at least that we're cascading, when I write Paul, it's not that Paul you know, Paul Bot is pretending to be Paul. Right. Look, we we understand that we're talking we we would know the difference of what we're talking. That I agree with. Totally. Totally. Now, in the context of of this of this situation, I I I would think of it more as not, hey dad, talk to me. How are you doing? How was your day? And you and you know, this LM is manifesting some bullshit thing. I'm in heaven and chilling. Of course not. Like so stupid. However, I do think it's really interesting, like if Paul (27:09) Yes, but it's acting on your behalf. You want it to schedule things, right? Yeah. Marc (27:36) If I were to say, Hey dad, like, remember when you made that career move from X company to Y? Or would you like you know, can you pull up tell me a little bit about what was behind that decision or or what would you I'm thinking about doing the same thing. How would you advise me based on that? Like that's a different thing, you know? And maybe that's the guardrails I'm talking about. Paul (27:56) I think the second part is not, I think the second part is not because it's the same thing. It's just a more intelligent question, but it is, it is actually, you're asking LLM to make meaning from something in the past applied to a current situation. That is exactly that, you know, know, the first part is yes, the first part could be interesting. I don't disagree with that. I think the first part could be interesting in a sense to say, it's a different way of reading a memoir. Marc (28:01) Right. Yep. Yeah, fair. Paul (28:26) Yeah, but it is. Yeah. But without inferring to anything today or without giving any advice, maybe, you know, because that person is not there anymore. I think it's a really thin line. And and I mean, death is programmed. There is a reason why our parents should die before us. Right. I mean, it's also part of us. It makes us also grow. It's it's that. And I really, really wonder as parents if we maybe stop Marc (28:27) Correct. Right. ⁓ It is. Paul (28:57) educating and trying to raise our kids if we think that anyways, there's the digital twin who does this. Don't you almost give away responsibility? That's kind of my thought of it, right? Because they're like, hey, whatever, who cares? Marc (29:09) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah yeah. I mean Paul (29:18) It's a strong one, I know, that notion. I think it's kind of a secondary effect that I'm wondering about. Marc (29:21) No it is, it is. But okay, but but here's Yeah, yeah. Okay, but here's ⁓ to lighten up the mood, just for a sec, 'cause it gets a little heavy. Would you create a digital twin if your parents now? Paul (29:35) No. Marc (29:36) Fuck no. I I I think we we were laughing. We had the same we had the same reaction yesterday 'cause we're like, look, you know what, like we've we spent, you know, forty four years, forty five years with their parents. Like we already know what they're gonna say to this stuff. You know. ⁓ Paul (29:38) Fuck no. Fuck no. Exactly. And I would be very sad. Don't get me wrong. mean, and I would be very sad if my kids and I understand you. Even also my seven year old is not going to remember that. so that they have something that is more than some stupid iPhones photos that we made, you know, I think that would be great. A curated memory of myself that is not just iPhone pictures, but that might also be a video or might be something I said. I think that would be really beautiful. Marc (30:24) No. I mean, well, look, the guardrails have to be queer. It's just it's just an interesting thing. Paul (30:28) you know, just as you were saying this, was thinking kind of what am I taking away from this? And one is I always thought it is amazing, you know, when parents or the last generation left something behind, like my grandfather wrote two books, right, about his memories and how he was in war, which I think is great. Or, you know, my father-in-law or, whatever, ex-father-in-law, I don't know what this is, wrote down his principles and he was a very successful businessman, so he wrote those down. So maybe with AI, it's easier for us to actually capture those things. Maybe I should feed them my journals and say, you know, filter out the three things that actually matter, because I'm sure it's the same. But then I guess many people have written smart books and what really is the thing is how can you relate those things? to your kids while you're alive and use the time because they can buy, I'm sure, a much smarter book from somebody else that talks about all these things. So that kind of stays with me. ⁓ Two things, maybe there is a way of capturing this and leaving something that is more than just a memory. And I don't mean an avatar of myself or an additional twin, clearly not, as I said before. And the other one is to ⁓ think of the moments where you really want to pass things on and use them. Why we're here. Marc (31:53) I guess, you know, have I all that makes sense, but have I convinced you just like a little bit that this could be a good idea? Paul (32:00) No, I think it is an absolutely horrendously stupid idea. I cannot, I'm surprised you don't get that from what I say. I think it's fun to have a multimedia memory of Paul that you can trigger different stories of my life. This is a different thing. One is a media project and the other thing is a fucking digital twin. You can't say it's not a digital twin. Marc (32:15) No no no with guardrails. Sorry, sorry, sorry. Okay, cool. Yeah. Paul (32:26) And the guardrail is it doesn't talk like that. That's not the thing. The rest is nothing else than a, I don't know, a media installation. You can do that if you have fun with it. That's two different things in my opinion. Marc (32:40) Mm. Fair point. All right. Fair point. Well listen, this was a lot of fun. Paul (32:43) Alright, Yeah, so we talked about Terminators, Digital Twins, that's very similar. Marc (32:49) Yeah exactly. Paul (32:53) ⁓ Can I give you my idiotic things of the week? I mean, I find it hard to choose almost. But I let you choose what is the most idiotic. So I mean, I left another pair of airports in an airport security tray. And that's a classic. But I was this week. Number one. Number two, I basically but styled, although I didn't but that it was even more stupid thing Marc (33:00) Okay. Tell me. ⁓ my god. Paul (33:19) So I basically bad-dialed a number I shouldn't have bad-dialed today. That's number two. I'm not gonna go into this. Marc (33:24) Please tell me that was your ex girlfriend. right. Paul (33:29) It is number two. Yeah, so these are my idiotic things of the week, Can you share yours? Marc (33:34) Okay. ⁓ my most idiotic thing my god. I mean I'm trying to think like what could be stupid. Here here's what it is. I actually also bought a piece of art. So I was in Kabogota, go to the go to this gallery, fall in love with this piece of art, buy it. Right. And then I was like, can you just like ship it to me and I stroll out, you know? Like, yeah, sure. Then, you know, I ⁓ go to the ⁓ the airport, you know, a few days later. And I see some guests from the wedding who also bought a piece of art, right? A big fucking piece of art, right? And they had it wrapped and they put it in special storage united, right? And got sent to them. They picked it up right away. So then I got the bill today from the people who were from the art gallery that was like, that thing you wanted from DHL, here's the shipping cost, three hundred dollars. And I'm like, Why did I have this wrapped? That was so stupid. Paul (34:30) Yeah, that is an idiot. That is is stupid. But nice. saw the I saw the piece is really nice. The Terminator of the week. You know, I was fly fishing. That was super Terminator. But I talked about this already. Dude is amazing. Just to give you a little hint. The day I caught three fish, my oldest son caught 22. So this is how much I suck. That's idiotic thing number four. Yeah. Anyways. Marc (34:38) It is cool. Wow. Wow. Paul (34:57) But no, we went out for dinner yesterday to a very, special place, which is not a thing you would do daily because we celebrated a friend and colleague who made a great business and who we were also part of as investors, luckily. And so we said thank you to him and went out for dinner to a place called Duberg in Vienna, where they cook everything with real fire. There is no gas and no electricity. stove in that kitchen. Marc (35:26) this is like the Basque that that Basque place. ⁓ I forgot what it's called. Paul (35:30) Dude, it was unreal. They had a dish there. I mean, insane. Totally insane. Totally insane. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That I won't blow. Yeah. So that's my terminator. In short, what's yours? In short. Marc (35:37) Can you get me a reservation? Maybe in October that you won't blow. Yeah. Okay. Good. That's sick. ⁓ I've got two Terminators 'cause it's been so fun. So one is my dear friend Max gave me World Cup tickets to ⁓ two Germany games. One one in ⁓ Yeah. And by the way, where they are, unbelievable. You know, about three meters to four meters from the field. Second one is ⁓ have you ever been at the wedding? I've never seen this at our wedding party. ⁓ we were sitting around in a circle. Paul (35:53) Wow. check. Be a good friend. Okay, great. Jesus. Okay. Yeah. No. Marc (36:18) And ⁓ Paul (36:18) Yeah. Marc (36:19) one person at the table was assigned table captain for keeping the energy very high. At the table. Yeah. And this guy, I will all say, took his role very seriously in all the ways to keep the energy high in Bogota, and it was awesome. And that guy deserves the terminator of the week. Yeah, yeah. He was like no. Paul (36:25) No, that is fun. Huh. that is fun. Absolutely. And on that bombshell, that is fantastic. I'm sure that was fun. Marc (36:50) It was a lot of fun. It was great. Yeah. Gro I love that tactic. Exactly. Table Captain. Paul (36:53) man. I think I always was automatically that person. Marc (36:59) I always thought so too, but but you know, there is someone better than me. All right. Paul (37:05) Hey, listen, great. That should have that can happen. Man, it was a lot of fun. It's late and I'm going to finally sleep for the first time this week. I'm really looking forward to this. Marc (37:15) Big hug and it was awesome to talk to about this. Bye. Paul (37:16) You too. Same. Ciao.