The Money Beliefs You're Teaching Your Kids (Without Realizing It) | Ep 36

Paul (00:05) Welcome to Guys Like Us. You are listening to the podcast about the things that you start thinking about when you are in your prime, sometimes also called midlife. You will hear stories about family leadership, relationships, fun nights out and the opposite kids. In short, all the things that shaped us and continue to move us. And in today's episode. Marc (00:28) I like that intro. Paul (00:31) We are going to talk about money again. It's kind of the third episode or if you want of the series on money. And this time we will reflect on what we can do so our kids grow up with a healthy relationship to money, which I think is an interesting one. I am your host, Paul Fatiga, a former CEO, divorced father of three and a guy who loves diving down rabbit holes. whatever it is from AI to self-development. And I'm joined by my good friend Mark, the notorious Mark Winter. Marc (01:07) Hello, I'm joining you from New York. I am ⁓ a recovering consultant, an entrepreneur, and a father of two, and a part-time philosopher these days. So it's great to be here. Paul (01:21) Amazing. That's a beautiful intro as well. Thank you. How is it going? How am I, you know, meeting you today without a drink in a, a, a busy day, it looks like. Marc (01:31) I'm miserable man, exactly. is like a full on flood of meetings. My co-host is on vacation. He just told me, yeah, I finished my lunch at 4.30, which I know exactly what an amazing lunch that is. I'm drinking fucking water. That's what's sponsoring me. Paul (01:49) I'm drinking that digestive tea. Marc (01:52) Yeah, exactly. To help your whatever you were eating, probably your amazing paella and seafood. Yeah, exactly. ⁓ my God. Yeah. Paul (01:58) I had exactly that, had an amazing pay and grilled fish and some really nice white wine. yeah, no, wait, wait until I send you some pictures, then you can hate me. I didn't even do that. See, this is how nice I am because I felt you stressing out all day. So I thought if I send you these pictures, you're going to not show up. So I didn't do that. Marc (02:06) Today I really hate you. Normally I don't, just I'm with you, but today it's gonna trick... Ugh. Ha ha ha ha. Ha Well, I'm already de-stressing, so it's good. Especially, I'm so glad you picked a topic that's not going to stress us. Paul (02:26) Here you go. Here you go. Well, you know, maybe it doesn't stress you because your kids are too small to get any money yet or to ask you for that. I don't know. We're going to get into that later. Trust me with an almost 12 year old, a 10 year old and a very prolific seven and a half year old who was learning from her bigger brothers. This is a topic. it's been a topic that I Marc (02:40) Mmm. Paul (02:55) I've been discussing with my ex-wife up and down for the past two weeks, not super intensively, but it was a topic that was top of mind. And we're actually ⁓ together here on a small vacation for Easter in Spain. we want to sit down our kids and to talk to them about money and what they get and so on this week. So I thought it was quite interesting to talk about it. Marc (03:20) No, it's a great choice, honestly. it is, I was just having a conversation with this, also with ⁓ my cousins ⁓ who have children who much older about how much to give their kids, how much allowance, how to talk about money in general. ⁓ As you're considering ⁓ a college major, should you think about something that will get you money or not, or follow your passion? All these random things, all of it. Paul (03:37) all these things. All these random things. But I mean, let's start with this. I allowances. I actually have no idea how it works in the US. Did you get an allowance as a kid? When did it start? And you remember how much it was? What's your kind of your first memory you have of you having money for yourself? Marc (03:58) Yeah, I mean... I think it's a great question. I think it was around 12 or 13. I wanted to buy CDs. When the CD players were out, I remember the first purchase I bought was MC Hammer's Hammer Time. And I did that from helping my parents out with cleaning the yard. Paul (04:24) really? So and before that you didn't get any allowance, I don't know, five bucks a week or month or something? Marc (04:29) No, I would like beg my parents, know, but hey dad, can I have five bucks for this or that? know, they were, I, the concept of, which is probably not surprising, you know, the concept of working ⁓ for material things wasn't really introduced until I started to really covet them, you know, which is kind of in the pre-teens, like when the social pressure came in and your friends came in with a hot new toy, that kind of thing. Paul (04:51) Mm-hmm. Marc (04:59) What about you? Paul (04:59) That's super interesting. I remember very well, I got, I think it must have been either first or second grade of elementary school. And I got 20 shillings a month, which I mean, in today's money is a euro 40, which probably with inflation, since this has been 35 years, is probably five euros a month or something. Marc (05:22) Mmm. Paul (05:23) And I remember that I walked by a newspaper stand shop kind of thing on my way to school. And every time I got these 20 shillings, so once a month I would walk in there and spend it all on a deck of car cards, know, auto quartet. I don't know if you know these things, you know, these cards of 20 where you have different cars and it says, you know, it has a picture and it says, you know, how fast they go, how many horses they have. know, uh, Marc (05:41) fun. Yeah, of course, of course, of course. Paul (05:51) all these stats and I loved those. But basically I ran out of money on day one because that's all I bought. And then obviously it increased and stuff and these things and ⁓ obviously there was also the work for money part in it but I really have a very good memory of those 20 shillings being in my pocket and then getting out of it very quickly. So that's mine. And on your hand, did you have, I mean, did you grow up with the feeling of, I don't know, you had enough money to buy the things you wanted or you didn't and you wanted more or, know, what was the emotion attached to it if you think about it? Marc (06:27) You know, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'd sum it up this way. Like, and it's funny, because your story sounds a lot more capitalist than mine, know, from here. Which is, yeah. No, look, you know, well, I was also raised by European parents, so maybe it's a little different. But like, I feel like my parents did a great job of making me not think about money until the moment I had to. And what I mean by that is, Paul (06:39) Which is surprising, I thought we'd actually go the opposite route here. Mm-hmm. Marc (06:58) when they really pulled the plug. honestly, really only happened around college. I ⁓ got a few hundred bucks here or there. The allowance thing was never a big thing for me. was more like tasks that required a lot of time or a weekend. And then they would reward me versus Paul (07:08) Really? Like what? Marc (07:27) ⁓ because Paul (07:27) Mowing the lawn. Marc (07:29) yeah, like cleaning the lawn, like weeding, which is pain in the ass. Or if I'd be like in my family's vineyard, it would be doing the bottling during harvest, like this kind of stuff. But like cleaning your room and like making your bed. No, that was my expectation of you. That's you being like an up person in this house, you know? Paul (07:47) That's a very important point, this one. Did you have one of these typical ⁓ American jobs where you wrote your BMX and you threw newspapers over fences or in front yards? Marc (08:00) No, wish. I mean, again, there was no Paperboy, though I love playing the Nintendo game. Did you ever play the Nintendo game? I think it was called Paperboy. It was amazing. I think it was on Gameboy. Paul (08:06) Jesus. I was so hoping for this cliche tonight. I didn't have a, you this is one of the big traumas of my life. I had never owned a Game Boy nor a PlayStation or a Sega nor a Nintendo. I don't even know what they are. I'm just saying those words. No, I have no fucking clue. Like, no, I never did. And we also had only Marc (08:25) Really? That's so crazy. ⁓ yeah, that's probably why you were successful at school. ⁓ Paul (08:34) because I was bored. No, but on the other hand, word, word is wrong, but I always had the feeling I didn't have enough money to buy what I wanted. And that was also probably stupid stuff because probably when I was 14, I wanted to buy cigarettes and when I was 16, I wanted to buy beers. Yeah. So maybe that was a good thing. Marc (08:52) so much more adult. You're so much cooler than I was. I basically wanted a video game that I could play for three months. ⁓ Paul (08:57) I grew up in Austria, you know, that's a different thing. It's not a good thing actually that we started, you know, doing these things so early. so I always had to feed and obviously had these things that I, know, mowing the lawn would do something big, bigger things as well. know, bigger things would also get me some cash. Bigger fuck ups that I did would also put me in huge debt. I remember that when I was 12 or so, I illegally drove my mom's car and I crashed it in the garage. Yes, yes. I took out my mom's car. I sat on top of the booster seat of my brother. So I looked taller. I put my dad's glasses on and I went around the block. And when I went back into the garage, my dad's car was in there too and I didn't get the angle right. And so I got stuck between my dad's car and the garage and that kind of... ⁓ Marc (09:29) What? That's an amazing story. Paul (09:55) Yeah, that kind of fucked up the real left door. Yeah, exactly. I think that was 5,000 shillings. That was a lot of money. I remember these numbers very well because I got told off so badly and I had to mow the lawn for free ever since then. And I think that's how I developed the grass allergy later. No, I had it before. But anyways, I was indebted by the age of 12, basically. So you could also call it a lesson. Marc (09:57) Busted. ⁓ So, okay, like I think I know where you're reading this like is the What were the lessons that you're like did your parents when they were telling you about money and there's one thing to reward you for tasks but where they were where they like Prize this over everything else like this is or this is like a fact of life you have to work for your cash like if you want something or they're you know, or is this like a necessary but is this a necessary evil like Paul (10:49) I mean you're going exactly right, I mean... No, I think that's exactly, I think what's interesting to uncover and I did that in the past few weeks, what were kind of like the beliefs, the core beliefs that your parents gave you, right? Around money. And for me, it was basically you have to work hard for your money or your dad worked hard for this, so don't waste it. know, ⁓ money doesn't grow on trees, you know, all these kinds of very almost puritan ⁓ things. Marc (11:14) Yep. Yep. that. Paul (11:22) there that were part of my core beliefs. Yours sound a little bit different to be honest. Marc (11:27) Hmm. My mom used to say... Yeah, yeah. mean, well, first of all, my mom loved to say how much more money she would have if she didn't have kids. Paul (11:35) you That's a fact too. I don't even go there. I don't go there, Marc (11:38) She was like, yeah, which is probably a way until 40 to have mine, like, honestly, if I'm honest, right? She was like, yeah, you think we have money? Like, you know what, try having kids, exactly. Yeah, look, think I, all those Puritan things are part, like, look, my parents were hardworking American immigrants, you know? And so they worked there, but my mom also loved talking about how hardworking she was. So she wasn't like a quiet worker. Paul (11:44) Yeah, yeah, you're right. You're right. You're right. You're right. Marc (12:08) While she was working, she was reminding you, look at this motherfucker, basically I'm working hard. Like if you want nice things, you got to work for it, et cetera. And then if you're really smart, you marry someone who has all the money so you don't have to work, is, ⁓ that's twice I take her advice. Yeah, yeah. So. Paul (12:08) Hehehehehe Yeah. That's also ⁓ a plan. Yeah, no, my mom always, my mom didn't work, but she was very, she's holding everything together. I remember sitting at her desk, her sitting at her desk, doing the basically her bookkeeping and ⁓ always not complaining, but letting us know that she didn't have enough, which was complete objectively bullshit. Marc (12:48) Mm. Paul (12:49) But I don't think she was bullshitting us. She really believed it. And she did this feeling of scarcity, which I think was something that she had grown up with, was something that she kind of passed on to. And I think it's, mean, you you can go on and on about stories like this, but as with many things that you do with your kids, number one is extremely important to understand what you grew up with yourself. Because if you just go in automatic mode, that's most likely what you're going to pass on to your kids too. Marc (12:54) Right. Paul (13:19) Like with every other fucking thing that you do with your kids, right? I that's just how it is. Right. So I found that super, super interesting in fact. Marc (13:20) 100%. Yeah, yeah, of course. Of course. Paul (13:29) And if we put that on the side, what would be the things that you would like your kids to grow up with when it comes to money? What kind of beliefs and values would you like them to have? Marc (13:43) I think that... Gosh, off the cuff. Three things. It's important, but it's not everything. Paul (13:51) Mm-hmm. Marc (13:51) And many times, time is the most valuable thing you have, not money. ⁓ So don't go chasing money at the expense of time, of being present and enjoying what, that's important. ⁓ When you do have it, be thoughtful about how you spend it and where you save it. And then I think I would love for them to have an experience, and it's less of a lesson, but I remember the experience I had. Paul (14:11) Hmm. Marc (14:21) of living slightly paycheck to paycheck for a bit. I thought that was one of the best lessons I've had in money in a long time. And that was, thank you, falsehood, scarcity. Like moving within it. I remember the first job I had in New York, and I felt that even before, but I acutely remember this. I remember making $30,000 a year for a random house in New York City, which is like such a, Paul (14:30) Sky City. Marc (14:50) basically a little bit above minimum wage, trying to make things work, living off the coupons available at the pharmacy, or the pharmacy's here, you can buy food on a discount, and blowing all my money on one night in a beer on a random Tuesday, and then realizing I can go out on the weekend. This kind of trade-off stuff and thinking, just makes you, I think, really thoughtful moving forward. Paul (15:14) Dude, beautiful! That's already amazing! Marc (15:16) Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean, clearly I thought a little bit about it. What about you? Paul (15:22) I one thing is really, also which I like this connection between work and money to me is an important one, right? But also not to put, you know, kind of to feel safe. Marc (15:32) Yes, 100%. Paul (15:38) with it and not being driven by it in any way in a sense of if you have too little to think that you have too little, if you think you have too much that you need to spend it or need to give it away and you feel too entitled and bad about it, just to feel comfortable around it and see it as a means to buy your experiences, education, time, not things. That's kind of, generosity, would love them to kind of learn with that. yeah, and that is not everything. not, you know, that happiness. I mean, we talked about happiness and we actually know that it can make you happier, but only by a very small percentage. But in any case, ⁓ that's kind of the main values I would love for them to take away and to carry on with in their lives. Marc (16:31) What do you think are the barriers to those? I these are all great lessons. I love what you just said. What gets in the way of that, instilling those? I think, I'll answer my question, but no, you go first, and then can answer my own question. Paul (16:41) Yeah, No, think mostly it is our own unresolved issues with that topic that get in the way of that, frankly. ⁓ I think if you have not a healthy relationship to that topic, it's going to be very hard to teach a healthy relationship. So I kind of like that first part. ⁓ I like the introspection in that sense, right? As opposed to what's being said in the... Marc (16:54) Hmm. Paul (17:15) US tech scene lately that introspection is bad for you, which I think is one of the most stupid things I've heard in a lifetime. That's actually an edit of the week, by the way. Sorry. So I think that's mostly in the way. then, yeah, I think, and then it waterfalls down from there, right? And all the shitty things you can do then, ⁓ you know, endless. Marc (17:20) Stupidest thing, yeah. No, it's a good one. Yep. I still have a different answer, which is more macro in a way. Like, I think... Paul (17:38) Okay, go ahead. Marc (17:41) I, at least in this part of the world, we put our kids in circles that were aspirational. And I'm pointing the fingers elsewhere, but I want my kids to go to grade schools, and they go to grade schools, they go to the parents, right? The parents ⁓ are, least in New York, beyond the realm of generous in terms of what they're giving their kids. It's crazy. Everything from I went to a Black Panther birthday party that was like a Case Five. suddenly we're like, Black Panthers show up, it's a crazy party, there's a big balloons, the whole band is going there, then the vacations are in Kenya, everyone's going crazy stuff. And they create this expectation of a lifestyle for those kids. the lifestyle that you're Paul (18:22) That is nuts. ⁓ Marc (18:40) that you're carrying forward is bleeding into their lessons. Maybe that's their life lessons, which I think is really interesting. Paul (18:44) And no, think that's a great one. That's a great one. Marc (18:47) You know? And that's what you have to be mindful of. Paul (18:50) And in a sense, know, why I also, this topic came to me is because I realized that my kids actually rarely ever asked me for money and they have actually a Revolut Kids account and their money just sits there. And then I thought, are we just giving them too much in a sense that they get anything or everything they want anyways, apart from the fact that they still don't have a switch, which they would really love to have, but they don't. But I think they've given up on that in their lives because they have had. Marc (19:18) Because that's because their daddy never had a video game. God. Paul (19:20) Exactly, exactly. It's like I'm gonna put them through the same kind of hell. Talking about the same mistakes again. ⁓ Exactly. No, but yeah. Marc (19:26) Exactly. Exhibit A. But can I just share, just riff on this for two more things? So like I just rejected an upgrade offer for my kid to go from New York to Frankfurt on business class. And the reason why I did that, and not that I'm a holier than that, I just thought I was like looking at like Felix's four, right? And I was thinking to myself, God, it would be so amazing just for me to go on business class and just sleep right with like. Paul (19:42) Mm-hmm. Really? Marc (19:59) you know, I don't have to think about it, nevermind. And I was like, if I put him on that, he's four. That's his expectation moving forward. Like the moment he gets that, and I'm being like. Paul (20:07) No, mean, that's, you know, there's so many fun Instagram reels where they show a picture of a video of a kid sleeping in business class. I'm going to show this to her when she's grown up and tells me that she never got enough or something like this. Yeah. Marc (20:21) Yeah, exactly. There's that. like, you know, I mean, it's just a... It's so real for me. and... Their lifestyle, which you want them to understand, you can make choices about. Paul (20:36) No, I think that's a great point. No, okay. I agree with you. I mean, if you have a spoiled lifestyle yourself, I mean, it's going to be very hard to have a non-spoiled lifestyle for you, know, instill that into your kid. I mean, that's very clear, right? And I think we are all guilty of that. I mean, because we all live Marc (20:50) 100 % Paul (20:54) better lives now with our kids. least I do, then my parents did with me. mean, we are better off in a sense, right? I mean, where we went to vacation and all these things. Yeah. Marc (21:00) Yeah. One of the few, yeah, one of the few, exactly, that we're better off. And also, as we said in our first episode, we have better wine in the fridge than our parents do. So there's a lot of things. Paul (21:12) Exactly. No, so there's lots of things there that are already going horribly wrong in that sense. So, so I had, you know, I did this exercise of thinking about, you know, what were kind of the money messages I got, what are the money messages that I would like to give to my kids. And, and we did this also as, as a, as a set of parents and then thought about how we, you what are we going to do about this now? And so, and there's obviously lots of literature on this as well, and you can download documents from banks and stuff to try to teach that. we did a best off for ourselves, and I wrote them down as contracts for my kids because I want them to understand the responsibility attached to this. which basically gives them a very transparent table of what they get in elementary year one and what they get in school year four and in school year six, because that's kind of the school years the kids are in right now. So they also understand that it's fair, they already tell me, though, that like we didn't get money in grade one like my sister gets, and then I tell them actually life is not fair, but we're gonna try to make it fair, but it's not, you know, that's also a lesson in a sense. So they get that and they have full transparency of how much they get for grades because we only always got money for grades and I kind of like that. And I think it's the only way I can motivate them to study those efforts. I don't know. I'm not sure that's great. And what you said before, there is also some conditions, basic conditions, which they have have to be met. Like clean up your plate, make your room. I mean, those are things that are not being paid for. And that's kind of the Marc (22:45) Yeah. the art of being a resident in your household. Paul (22:52) Part of the family. mean, this is what it is and it kind of goes to that and it also has Also put down something like they need to should think of a thing or something they want to save for you know So so they get this idea of saving and accumulating and it's so interesting how different the kids are I mean my daughter the other day she she borrowed ten euros from me Marc (23:08) Yeah. Paul (23:17) because she wanted to buy Lego, she bought the Lego, then she had to give me the 10 euros and then she totally panicked that she has no money left and I'm so terrible. And I said, listen, you wanted this. I mean, and now you have to pay for it. That's life, right? While my middle son never spends anything. We went to a shop yesterday and we said, you know, pick some toys. I know this ball is 20 euros. I know in Vienna it's only 10. I'm not going to buy this. This is fucking joke. You know, I don't need anything. I'm fine. I already have a ball. I don't need another ball. It's like this. Marc (23:47) well-taught well-taught Paul (23:48) No, this is the funny thing, he's not taught. I think that's another lesson, know, kids are also just different in a sense. And so it's really interesting. Marc (23:55) Yeah, I agree with that. Paul (23:59) one of the other things that we do is to kind of give them an amount of which only half they should be spending and from the other half. They should be saving half and putting half away again to give it away, you know to understand that there are also people that are way less fortunate than us and then see if they can also Do something good with it. I want to want them to understand, the power of compound interest, you know do things like this with my oldest son that I put it in and in an ETF or something and look at it every half year to see what it's done. All these kinds of things I think are super interesting to teach them early. Marc (24:34) Yeah, those are, I 100 % agree. those are, I wish that interested me more when I was a kid. I mean, I was aware and obviously my dad was a banker. So, I mean, it was in the household, but it was never a proactive kind of move. Paul (24:47) No, I mean, we put everything in the savings account, right? And we went to the bank with this thing, but which paid you 3 % in interest. That didn't really make a lasting impact on me. Marc (24:57) Yeah. Yeah, and you know, it's funny, like, I think my mom, my dad cared less, but my mom wanted me to, was so wanted to shelter us from all that stuff. It's so funny, you know, until she didn't. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Paul (25:08) Interesting. See, here you go. Here you go. We are uncovering some of those hidden ones, right? Interesting. Marc (25:14) Totally, totally. It's making me think. was like, God, why didn't I learn that? Yeah, I'm just growing into shelter. Paul (25:19) Same here. I'm 44 and I really understood this and I did the CFA and all these things and I'm still not great at it. Marc (25:24) Well, I think like, well, you know, it's funny just to like pull on that thread a little bit because she grew up, it's actually just a very quick 30 second detour in pop psychology, but you know, because she grew up wealthy, lost it all at eight when her father died, then went to like poor working and stuff to then, and to then working her way up to like, you know, let's call it upper middle or just successful. Paul (25:45) Hmm. I never knew that. Marc (25:53) And then I think realizing, that was really hard. I never want my kids to experience that. It was part of maybe a driving force in what you chose to educate or not and what you chose to shield us from. And some of those decisions may not always be the smartest, most logical, but they're certainly emotional, to say the least. anyway. Paul (25:53) Yeah. See, here you go. Let's see. We're going to see not so soon how that all is going to work out. I'm going to try to print out those contracts and explain this to my kids in the next couple of days. I can give you a short update next week on how that went. So far, I've gotten lots of complaints, actually, that is not fair and blah, blah. But let's see. Marc (26:24) Ha ha ha. I want to see, want to, you should read them out dramatically for our audience, it'd be great. Paul (26:37) this is one of the projects I did with Claude Cowork. So I fed him a few documents that I downloaded from JP Morgan and all the principles that I want to, that I wanted to have. And then it came up with something and that something had a preface which says, our family believe that the right way to deal with money should be taught very early or learned very early. And with this contract, we want to jointly learn how to, spend your money in a smart way and how to make smart decisions, how you save for the future and how you also save money to to give to others and to help others. And then it goes on about, you know, the rules, the 50, 25, 25 rule. And about the pocket allowance table and development over the years, including inflation. So they get an idea about this too. Then it has a part on their grades and then it has, there are some extra works as well that I put in there as a list that are ⁓ above and beyond like the mowing the lawn stuff that are also priced out. So they know how much they can do extra. So that's the contract. And then the seventh part. Marc (27:46) That's cool. I like that. Paul (27:49) Seventh part is then, you know, what are you saving for in the next year? And then a little table to calculate how long they have to save to get this. That's it. So maybe it serves someone as a template. See, it's all the things you can do when you have, you know, AI help you. I know we're running out of time. ⁓ Marc (28:01) If only I had a dad like you. If only I had a dad like you. That's genius. I love it. Thank you for this. I enjoyed it. It's a good, meditation. Paul (28:15) So let me, yeah, let us quickly move into the idiotic things that we did in the Terminator. Although I want to divert from this and I actually want to pick up on what I said earlier. Was it Andreessen who said this, Marc Andreessen? no, Horowitz. Who was it of the two? Who had this introspection quote? Did you hear that? Marc (28:39) ⁓ it was ⁓ i think was interesting Paul (28:42) Yeah. Yeah, it's the bald guy, Marc (28:43) Yeah. Yeah, yeah. He's the fucking crazy, insane human. Yeah. Paul (28:48) Yeah. Yeah. So, mean, I don't know, guys, if you heard this and it goes 100 % against everything, I believe is that introspection is basically says introspection is completely bullshit. You should never look back only forward. That's the only way to go in life and in business. Marc (29:06) Crazy. Crazy. Paul (29:07) In German we say Hintenmitte sind furcht. I think it's crazy, but it says a lot about the state of our world actually at the moment. So I find that that is one of the saddest things I've heard in a very, very long time. Marc (29:13) Yeah, and big tech. So is he the idiot of the week? Because you should make him the idiot of the- Paul (29:20) Anyways, to me, absolutely. mean, usually I should pick a thing that I did and I did many things again this week, but I mean, you know, as always, but this one, I'm sorry, is so dumb. wanna, I wanna pull that in front. Yeah. Marc (29:33) Cool. That's a perfect idea of the week. I love it. So mine is, I've got a classic fight with a parking attendant. I, ooh, yeah, Parked the car in some parking garage in New York during the day. Told him I'd be five hours. Went out with friends, drank wine, champagne, totally forgot that I even had a car, you know? Don't use a car. At some point, like, Mer was like, Paul (29:45) Mmm. Because you usually don't have a car. Marc (30:03) My wife was like, where the car is? was like, oh, the car, I forgot it, right? Show up the next day, 10 minutes after the 24 hour mark, so he made me pay another full day, right? And I said, dude, it's 10 minutes. He's like, you told me you'd be five hours. Like, great, you made more money. I paid the overnight fee. Anyway, so I struggled with him and then. Paul (30:16) my fucking god. Did you have to pay? Marc (30:29) I was too stupid, maybe the idiotic, to slip him a 20 underneath, you know? To say, dude, come on, forget it, right? Whatever, we're even. So he just held on to the full two days and... Paul (30:40) And end cap to 22? Marc (30:43) No, that would have been the best. didn't, I said. I should have done that. that would have been the smart, yeah, slip them to 20 where we're good. Which is also, one should always keep 20s, just to slip people, to get around the system. Exactly. Paul (30:46) you should have, yeah. well. well, my friend. That's a terrible thing to say. But okay, I agree. So any other... What's your terminator? Marc (31:03) You Okay, Terminator of the Week. Everyone, I'm not the biggest college basketball fan, but UConn beat Duke yesterday in the most insane way. A 19 point deficit that came back from, like this kid, freshman, pulls a three pointer, like almost from half court to win it at the buzzer. And it was an incredible play. Yeah, yeah, just the way comes to go. Paul (31:21) Wow. No, I have to watch this right away. Marc (31:33) Yeah, so good. Paul (31:35) That's amazing. I'm gonna watch this. I have I have also terminator but it's a very bougie thing So but I say it at the end so people are not listening anyways anymore so I can say it No, listen, I we had a really beautiful lunch today, but my terminator actually goes out to my ex-wife this time ⁓ Who? No, no, because it's really nice that I mean a we can we can be here Marc (31:56) how classy of you. Paul (32:02) you know, to get and spend a few days together in Eastern. I kind of invited myself because I didn't have anything to do and I wanted to spend time with my kids and my family. So that was nice. And then she also organized today an amazing lunch at an amazing place. And this time of the year, there are no tourists and you know, we should go there at one point, but it was really opposite as Vilderade at the magical island of the West coast. And it was fucking gorgeous. And so that's kind of... Marc (32:20) Mmm Cheers to Claudia. Paul (32:32) That's a Terminator just for that, but also for the bigger picture. Marc (32:37) Love it. Love it. Wonderful. Cool, man. Well, this is great. Paul (32:40) Mike, have a great afternoon and... Marc (32:45) I'm ready to go back to the shit store. This was a nice diamond, you know, right in the middle of it. Paul (32:48) Exactly, go back to Shitstorm and come to Europe soon, my friend. Marc (32:52) Yeah. See you next week.