guyslikeus EP17: some thoughts on ambition and parenthood

Marc Winter (00:12) Hello. Welcome to guys like us. whether you are a long time listener or a newbie to our show, you have found a podcast about all things that you can experience when you approach a certain age where you start to feel the actual age in your knees and your joints sometimes. And where you also know how to, you know, how your perspectives have shifted and you want to talk about that. you will hear stories about friendships, relationships, leadership, and some of the lighter things in life. In short, the things that shape us and continue to move us forward. And we're so excited that you're here. And today's topic and ambition is, sorry, today's topic is about ambition and parenthood. How are you doing, Paul? Paul Fattinger (01:00) I'm doing fine, Mark. What a great interview you just did. Amazing. I'm just very happy the internet didn't bail on us because you were getting very, very shady here. But yeah, I'm good. Thank you. How are you, Mark? In New York. Marc Winter (01:03) That was a great, how was that? Yeah. That was great. I'm fantastic. yeah, actually I'm in Jersey City right now. it's, ⁓ yeah. No, no, you know, I'm looking at a beautiful New York. ⁓ That was a nice intro. It wasn't bad. I heard you wrote that quickly, huh? Paul Fattinger (01:21) sorry for that. Yeah. I did write that quickly, yes. Marc Winter (01:34) Yeah. Between between wipes, wipes of toilet paper. ⁓ No, no, of course not joking. Hey, listen, that's that's how it goes. But man, it was a how was your week? Paul Fattinger (01:40) Let's not get into this. ⁓ You have to use your time as you have it. Listen, it was an exciting week. Really exciting week, obviously for us, we kind of, no, kind of, we did launch our podcast to a broader audience by posting about it on LinkedIn, which also obviously drove ⁓ way more people to listen to our podcast, which felt very scary, to be honest, on the night before we actually did that, that Monday night, and felt great ever since then. Because, I guess because no one told us or told me that we're complete idiots and it really really sucks. guess that really helped. Marc Winter (02:28) Yeah, I mean it really helped me too that no one told us that we were complete idiots. Paul Fattinger (02:32) Which I think we did a whole episode of saying, you know, it doesn't matter what other people think, blah, blah, blah. But actually, you know, it's kind of nice when people don't think you're needed, you know? Marc Winter (02:39) And everyone knows exactly that this is a whole bullshit episode of The Ducks. This is all about working up the courage to release the thing. Well, I gotta tell you, you I was... Paul Fattinger (02:46) Exactly, like, what the fuck are these guys talking about? Exactly. No, that was great. And I was looking at numbers all the time. And so it's fun. know, it's really, it's been really fun. Marc Winter (02:56) Okay, I've been having a fun week too. ⁓ Obviously, this was a big centerpiece for it. felt like, ⁓ you know, it's a good reminder just putting things out in the world is better than not. And ⁓ you could see a lot of the great enthusiasm and direct notes people we haven't heard from in a long time. And so that was that was really cool. You know, it's it feels like a nice little milestone in our project here. Paul Fattinger (03:23) It does. really, really does. No, it was fun. And I love this. And I had a super weekend as well with my daughter's birthday. We're going to talk about it later as well, maybe in the later stage of the podcast. But before that, ⁓ yeah, let's see. Are you sponsored by anybody today? By any chance? Marc Winter (03:46) So I am not, which is a big faux pas, and I have a good reason for it. I'm in the public space of my brother's apartment building. couldn't get into his apartment ⁓ to be sponsored by anyone. But I have a good idea of who I'm going to be sponsored by after this, because I'm going to need a few ⁓ tricks. There's a nice Chablis that I brought my brother. Paul Fattinger (04:07) Hoo. Marc Winter (04:15) So it's going to be a good one. Yeah, what about you? Paul Fattinger (04:18) Yeah, is your brother I mean, I'm not sure we can talk about this, but you know, those friends where you bring the wine and you really hope you were drinking, gonna drink the wine you brought and not the wine that you think is going to be there. And then you kind of like, and then the people's like, ah, so should we, what should we drink? I have this here and that here. And you actually brought the wine chilled. So, you know, it's kind of, if you bring a chilled bottle of wine, I think that's, that's that's a sign, right? You want to say, Hey buddy, we should drink this tonight. Marc Winter (04:44) I'm so glad you brought this up. Totally. I actually, well, we should do, there's a whole topic on wine etiquette for parties that I'm very happy to get into. you know, there are some where, yeah, but I just want to answer your question directly. My brother will usually open what I bring. Paul Fattinger (04:57) Let's put this on the list. I'll put it on the list. Marc Winter (05:10) unless it's a party where he's obviously selected some wines and I trust his taste that it will be out there and what I, you know, it's an even swap, you But have I been to parties? Paul Fattinger (05:19) I mean, obviously didn't want to put your brother out there. I know your brother and he's a good man for wines. But there are people that might not be and just don't care so much or have the taste for it. Who cares? Marc Winter (05:29) ⁓ we've all had the experience. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Last year, I brought over a really beautiful, we saw George ⁓ to ⁓ just like a classic house party and some guy just threw it in the ice, know, look in the ice bucket. It was like, wait a second. well, you know. Paul Fattinger (05:49) Hmm. Oh, I remember very vividly from my parents, had some friends where, my dad would really basically go there with like six case of wine because like I can't drink what these guys have. But he was shameless. He told them, like, not gonna drink this shit. This is why I brought this. And they were all laughing. He's like, that's okay. know, Stefan is coming. We know what's gonna happen. He's gonna bring his own drinks. But okay, fine. know. Marc Winter (06:01) that That's funny. Well, we had these neighbors who were like really like full on Americana and they would go to my dad sometimes like, oh, Wolfgang, know, what's a great white wine for us to serve at a dinner party? And my dad just basically tossed them. I think the brand was like Kendall Jackson, which is massive brand label. He was being kind of sarcastic, like a Chardonnay, you know? Yeah, of course, of course you know it. It's like a thing you would know. Paul Fattinger (06:35) Mm-hmm. I know that. Yeah. Yeah. Marc Winter (06:41) And I mean, he feels so stupid because of course, not only did he get Kendall Jackson every time he went over there, that's what he got as gifts from them, you know, for his birthday, for for fucking Christmas. ⁓ Paul Fattinger (06:53) Yeah, the only problem, the only thing you really have to be careful then is not to gift it back, right? That also happened. ⁓ I've done that before too, that, know, I kind of keep the wines I don't want to drink in a special place that I know is like to give back, but you just have to be careful you don't give it back to the same people, which obviously I did. ⁓ Marc Winter (06:59) ⁓ yeah. Ha ha ha ha! Paul Fattinger (07:20) And they actually called me up for it and said, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, I don't drink red wine. was kind of my, that was probably then I had a bottle and a half, you know, three hours later. anyways, in the moment I thought I had gotten away with it in any case. All right. So, so much for that. I am sponsored by an Austrian tap water today. Marc Winter (07:30) Yeah, exactly. my god, we're so boring today. Well, it's it's Sunday. Paul Fattinger (07:45) So same here. and my excuse is it's Sunday night. had a long weekend and I think that's going to be the problem of us recording on Sundays that we can only fictionally speak about our responses. But in any case, Austrian tap water is fantastic. A Vienna tap water, especially one of the finest in the world. We can do an episode on this. Be very boring, but in any case, that's, that's, that's our responses today. Marc Winter (08:07) Well, let us say it's podcast 17. it's podcast, it says episode 17 of not actually being sponsored by a proper winery. So we're going to work on that. think by the time we get to 100. Paul Fattinger (08:19) Yeah, we had others before, we had others before. I think it's fine. I think it's fine. I listen, we also have to look out for ourselves. You know, on that note, yeah, go ahead. Sorry. Yeah. Marc Winter (08:22) ⁓ that's all good. Well, listen, you know what I have behind me? Have you noticed this? There's another reason why I have to stick with some water today or not indulge us because I've got a sleeping kid behind me because it's been a crazy day which relates to our topic. You know, it's Sunday, it's rainy. I had big plans and suddenly, you know, I'm with the kids and other people's kids and other kids, you know, in the science museum that is as busy as my brother has seen it. everyone is, know, kids are running around playing with dinosaurs and this is fun. Paul Fattinger (09:04) A kid's museum on a rainy day in November is an absurd idea, but okay. Yeah. It's like, it's like going to IKEA on a Saturday morning when they have sales. Yeah. Yeah. Marc Winter (09:08) It's a circle of hell. It's a circle of hell. Yeah, I mean, I'm so angry about it. It's not even it's not even crazy. You know, I'm I was reminded you know that great Nietzsche quote, he was a powerful why can endure anyhow, you know, and I was thinking, you know, the children are definitely a why purpose. Paul Fattinger (09:33) Mmm. Marc Winter (09:35) But the how is really, yeah, you really need to get through it in some powerful way. Paul Fattinger (09:36) Hmm. Alright, alright, very deep, but how does it relate to our topic today, my friend? Marc Winter (09:45) Well, I thought it was really kind of interesting, especially in where we're in different stages of parenthood. We should say that, you know, I think you're my kids are four and one and yours are 13, 11 and nine. Paul Fattinger (10:00) 7-9-11 you just dropped out again Marc Winter (10:01) Seven nine of okay, off by two years, okay. So, you know, different phases and you what I thought would be really kind of healthy to talk about is the tensions I think we often feel between our own personal ambition and raising kids. And I think there's the ambition of career, there's the ambition of making and I found myself and finding myself increasingly trapped I think between the time that slips through your fingers as you're raising kids, but also just the head space that kind of zaps and shrinks for anything really meaningful between execution on jobs and managing kids. And I wanted to get a bit of your take on that because I feel like we have such high aspirations for ourselves. very often it feels to me that what gets in the way of delivering on that is our own family. And it's a funky transition, just to name it. And I'll even preface this by saying, I am, ⁓ I, need to acknowledge that think, know, moms always have the hardest job. think that, ⁓ you know, dads obviously we contribute a lot to, but this isn't just about ⁓ who does what. I think it's about one's hungering for impact in the future and how to balance that with being also the parent that you wanna be. Paul Fattinger (11:44) man, that's a huge question. That's a huge question. you are, I think you're talking to a man with two, you know, two very distinct, I think phases in my life and the way I look differently at this now than I have, than I did 10 years ago, or, know, or 11 years ago when I, when I became a father and, and just, you know, before I say my piece and we did a Marc Winter (12:05) Mm. Paul Fattinger (12:13) bit of research on this before, right? And there are so many, funny enough, I was looking through some reels again on Instagram and I saw some other dude and I'm going to share it on Instagram as well, who talked about this. there are so many people that when you ask them more towards the end of their career, and they usually had great careers, and they are asked what they regret, they usually would tell you that they don't regret creating more or achieving more. Marc Winter (12:40) I know. Paul Fattinger (12:40) But having more time with their kids and, and, and, and that that is also an ambition by itself. And that's, that's what they, they, they really, you know, they, you know, they really miss and they would really do differently. And it doesn't matter who you ask. It's always kind of the same story. And, and nevertheless, and we've all known this and we've all known this also 10 years ago, but I got to be honest with you when I had, you know, my kids and I was younger than you. was, think 33, my fourth. first kid in 33, five, seven. And that was like, obviously right in the middle of me trying to create a career. And I was very, very ambitious. And so up until I think that my midlife crisis slash divorce and all of this time, I kind of forced me to re-evaluate lots of the things and how I did things and how I looked at things. My balance was very clear little was ambition. Marc Winter (13:11) Yeah. Paul Fattinger (13:37) very clearly. Also because I didn't really know what to do with the kids when they were small, to be honest. I never kind of felt like I was, I always knew that I knew this before I had kids that these small kids, you know, you can't do shit with them. I think it's kind of boring. And just watching them rolling from left to right, you know, Marc Winter (13:37) Mm. Yeah. All right. Well, well, what- Yeah, of course. Yeah, there's a saying to us patients for that. And that's not that's not either of us probably. Paul Fattinger (14:01) Yeah, that's not me. you know, having said this and then then things change. I think today I look at this differently. And yet it's still difficult. It's difficult because it's not like you can, you know, just be 100 percent full time dad. I don't think that would be the right example for your kids either. And I would kind of like overdoing this, you know, being a father, you know, as an ambition by itself. You know, I think that's also a bit too far. So balance again is the key question. Marc Winter (14:25) Yeah, well, okay. Well, let me ask you this. Well, yeah, it always comes back to that, but you know, let me ask you this. when I, know, first of all, I had kids at 41 was my first. So it's called that a nine, wait, eight year gap between you and me. And I think part of that was because I realized I believed that in some way I was inherently selfish. Paul Fattinger (14:41) Mmm. Marc Winter (14:50) I was like, I need my time. like I, you know, I want to travel the world. want to like live an awesome life in New York. want to do great things in my career. And, ⁓ and then, you know, I did that and then at some point I realized, okay, it's time. Like it's now or never to have So you just need to kind of rip that bandaid off by the way. And now like, it's interesting, like I'm less selfish. Like, I mean, clearly because I'm giving so much time to my kids, feel, but nonetheless, my ambition hasn't gone away. And I think that's where it gets really interesting. Because I feel like, and maybe this week is a great example, like, you know, we're building things, we're putting things out in the world, and we feel like I've only got so much head space and time to do it. And so it's never, I think my evolution is that I feel much more queer hearted and open hearted about it. mean, my priorities are kind of still with the kids. I mean, more than the less, but man, how do I hunger to build and give more time to what's next? Paul Fattinger (15:58) Yeah, I mean, one thing you said in the beginning, I always thought I was smart actually to kind of use your 30s to, you know, to, you know, do selfish things if you want to, you know, create a career and do all those things. And then maybe when you were a bit wiser and you understood, you know, a few things that you might have not understood and had more money, you know, for, for, for childcare and what man is and stuff to do it then. Right. I mean, but at the end of the day, I don't think there's a blueprint for that. I if I think about it, my Marc Winter (16:15) and had more money in your bank account. Paul Fattinger (16:27) My parents had me when they were 26. They were also in the middle of creating and it gave them more time afterwards. ⁓ Listen, I think to me at the moment is a bit different, I would say, because it's not like I'm not ambitious. I'm very ambitious to do things that I have joy in. And I also have to say that things that take away too much of my freedom and presence ⁓ and would eat me alive basically as a project. They don't, you know, that kind of takes joy away then from me. So it doesn't qualify. And, but I'm also aware that the things that I've done, you know, in the past, like a job like I've done in the past to be, you know, a full-time CEO of a business that is transforming and growing at the very moment right now. I mean, probably it's, you know, if it's really in front of me, that's a difficult one for me to imagine doing that at that very stage of my life. And I think kind of right now, right now, because it just clicked to me that I could still do it in three, four years time. And I'm just in this magic phase of my kid's life where I know the older one is already getting to be a real pain in the ass. And, know, we are talking pre puberty here. And so, I mean, three months ago, I was saying they're all in such a sweet age and they were that changed very quickly. So now it's actually just discussing how much time we can have on WhatsApp and blah, blah. Marc Winter (17:26) Right now, you mean. Mm. Paul Fattinger (17:55) The little one is still super cute with seven and the middle one as well. So, you know, in five years time that might've changed completely. And if I'm still 50, not even 50, so I can still do so many things. So I think it is about the balance and understanding what can you get out of the time you have right now. And as we, I think discussed previously, I don't think it's possible to have it all. And you just have to make, you know, set priorities period. Marc Winter (18:20) well, I think what you just said is pretty powerful. I wanna say two friends, share two anecdotes of two friends. So I remember a close friend of mine called me when his youngest of two boys turned five and went to kindergarten or something, right? And it called me up, he's like, okay, I'm ready. It's been five years, like, know, of, or seven years total, right, of managing these kids, right? I've been in a job, I've been like just doing. ⁓ what was expected of me, I got promoted, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Now it's time to really build something Cree. I was like, I can't believe you waited seven years to do that, was what I was thinking, right? But he was very queer eyed, you know? And I got another one, very close friend who's like, you know, my age had twins super weight at life, like 43, you know, like, or 44 even, changing diapers, et cetera. Paul Fattinger (18:57) Mm. Marc Winter (19:15) robotics guy here in New York, you know, building the future. And he's like, I can't build the future while I'm changing diaper, you know, it's just, it's a brutal thing. You know, it's gotta be one or the other, which is a funny, a funny thing. And so, you know, everyone has different answers, but what I find, and I just want to also add a bit of clarity here, because when you say ambition, what I mean by ambition is that it doesn't mean just a stay in a job and kill it, and get promoted and climb up the ladder. To me, it feels like ambition for impact. Like, make stuff, put stuff out there. And I think that's an interesting difference to call it. Paul Fattinger (19:55) Yeah, I know. And I'm always really in awe of people who have that huge goal of making an impact. And I don't have that. I don't have that. No, I mean, I really don't have that. I think the biggest impact I can make seriously is the impact I have on the three individuals that are my flesh and blood, first and foremost. And we have the saying in German that Marc Winter (20:17) Mm. Mm. Paul Fattinger (20:22) We know when you clean up, should start cleaning up in front of your house. And that's kind of what I'm thinking is that because what is, know, if I go out there and change something great and have an impact on this planet, which let's face it in the grand scheme of things, doesn't fucking matter because it's mainly an impact on your ego and nothing else. And so, you know, start at home, have an impact there and then kind of grow it from there. That that's kind of what I, what I think. then. And then follow your heart and what's fun and you're going to have an impact. that's kind of how I think about it. And I, and maybe it's just because I'm so aimless and spiritless and visionless that I don't have this great, I want to change the world kind of thing going on for me. But I really don't see that. I want to apply myself to things where I can, yes, have an impact, but I don't know if you have to read about this in a book in a hundred years time or whatever. Marc Winter (21:18) No, no, okay. Paul Fattinger (21:20) Wikipedia, you know what I mean? So I'm like, I don't. Marc Winter (21:23) I do. Paul Fattinger (21:24) Yeah? Marc Winter (21:24) Yeah, no, makes sense. I mean, it's funny, like, there's this Great Dostoevsky quote, you know, the Russian ⁓ philosopher and writer, you know, he always said, you know, the soul is healed by being with children. And he writes that in the context of ⁓ the ambitious soul often keeps running from that very healing. ⁓ And I thought that was a really kind of interesting thought, not to get too deep, but you do realize that ⁓ I say this, but to tie into your cleaning your, starting what's in front of your house, right? To clean up, you know? And then starting having your impact that way, focused on what's right in front of you and how that can help shape and sharpen a lot of your ambition. Or bring your ambition into clarity. Paul Fattinger (22:13) Yeah, and listen, yeah. And I don't think, you know, it's not about being super dead. And I'm sure I do. I personally, I know I overcompensate some things, right, with trying to be extra there and so on ⁓ at the moment. And I'm aware of that and I'm trying to steer away of that. But if you kind of look at it at the grand scheme of things, right. So we are working, starting to work, let's say, to make math easy when we are maybe 20, 25. And realistically, we're going to work way past 65. Let's say 70, for the sake of the argument, or 75. So you have 50 working years in your whole life. Well, let's say 40. So then we also know that we spend 80 % of the time with our kids in the age up until the time when they're 12 years old. So when you have three kids like I do, which is already above average, you have two like you do. with a two to three year average. We're talking about a lifespan. See, now your son is waking up and telling you to readjust your ambitions. So we're talking about 15 years out of, what do we say, 45. That's a third, right? Where you should probably kind of have, besides your career ambition, also look at your kids, have this time, space and presence to make them be great human beings. Marc Winter (23:17) Yeah. Paul Fattinger (23:37) And that's it. That doesn't mean you can't create something that has an impact that will be quoted in 200 years time. And I think that's what it is. think it's acknowledging, I think it's being, it's being super impatient, acknowledging the fact that, you know, that there's different times in lives with different priorities and you can still achieve it all over the course of a lifetime. I think we kind of fuck it up because we think we have to achieve it all at the same time. Marc Winter (23:42) No, it's true. I think you're dropping a significant bit of wisdom there, my friend. I also think you're benefiting from, I hope I have that clarity when my kids, yeah, when my kids are ⁓ your age. mean, what I mean by is you're further ahead in the parenting journey and so you can, you're bringing some wisdom. And actually, now that think about it, that friend of mine who, you know, when he put his, Paul Fattinger (24:10) Austrian Tadboater. Marc Winter (24:29) five year old into kindergarten said, okay, I'm ready to build, et cetera. You you know what he just did recently? He quit his jobs because it's like, you know what, my kids are getting older and I have just a few years with them and to experience them like they are, you know, so I'm just going to focus on that. I was, yeah, that makes the point. Paul Fattinger (24:43) strictly. But listen, you also talking to the guy that, you know, know, talking to the guy first kid, I took three months off because that's what you do. You have to take time with your newborn. Three weeks into my into this kind of parental leave, I broke my leg so badly that I was on crutches for six months, you know, I think in a very deeply rooted cry for attention. Right. Because already my inner child was screaming, you know, there is a there is another competitor that takes away the Marc Winter (25:08) I remember. Paul Fattinger (25:18) the attention that I crave from my mate. ⁓ much for that, right? And having said this, I said, five years ago, I couldn't imagine it was also really painful, especially with three kids or four years ago, know, freshly, you know, the worst alone, then back then three kids aged three, five and seven, you know, that's a completely different story. doing stuff with them. remember, man, a holiday in Mallorca. I was about to basically throw myself off this balcony. Yeah. It was horrible. Horrible. Yeah. And I didn't see, it was really, it was like the most horrible place I've ever been to in my life. Like I thought I need to be the perfect dad. need to go in the hotel in Mallorca that had a water slides. And it turned out to be this awful place in Magaluf with like the most you know, where they had wine come out of a, out of a tab into all you can eat, even in buffet, you know, with no, am serious, man. was the only person in there that didn't have a tattoo. ⁓ the rest were like English. yeah, it was, it was, I don't want to talk about it, but it was horrible. you know, in my, in my, in me trying to be so good and, and I couldn't imagine what I say right now. I think it comes a lot with your kids grow up and they also become more fun. Marc Winter (26:19) my God. Are you serious? ⁓ Paul Fattinger (26:42) to deal with and you see more immediate impact of the things you do or you probably have done wrong in the past. And you kind of get this formal that they're going to be out of the impurity soon and don't want to talk to you anymore. And I think that kind of helps you honing in on that focus that, okay, fuck me, I have this now and it's going to be over soon. Where you are right now, you can't see the end of it. Try and push the pram right now or getting up at four in the morning. or having a kid pee in your bed. You know, that's very different outlook. Marc Winter (27:16) Yeah, this is helpful. know, it's funny, like I didn't know where this was gonna go. I was gonna put it out actually just naming the tension and see where it takes us. But it sounds like, know, what I'm taking away from this conversation is that you can't have it all, nor should you. Actually, it's a bite-sized kind of framework of how you're, or bite-sized type of perspectives of when you're zooming in and zooming out. And I think what was behind this tension also is just, because we still value presence and being present in the moment. Like we know the quality of when we give our attention to a thing, you know? And when we give attention to our children versus not. you know, I think the desire to... to do everything well enough requires presence, I believe. It really does. And you can't bifurcate different modes ⁓ and do them well. And I just think being aware of that is tremendously helpful. Because a lot of us just struggle with it as we multitask, as we try to do X or Y, you know what I mean? Paul Fattinger (28:21) I totally know what you mean. I think that kind of I think I wrote something on LinkedIn about this a few weeks ago, this whole topic of being present and right. I mean, it kind of leads them very quickly into quality time versus quantity, which is true, actually, you can spend a lot of time with your kids not being present. And that's completely useless. Right. Right. On the other hand, when you say I have two weeks in a month or let's say four days in a month, that's what I want to say. Marc Winter (28:41) Totally. Paul Fattinger (28:49) And on these days, I really focus only on my kids. That's also kind of bullshit, right? So it is somewhere in between there. It is about being there. That was always important to me to be there also when things happen to them, right? When they fall down, you know, the ladder and, and they break something and you go to the hospital with them, that's kind of the things they're going to remember that you were there for them. Not kind of, you know, you going to Disneyland to paint two very drastic kind of pictures. Marc Winter (28:54) Yeah. Paul Fattinger (29:19) But when you have the time to be present, and I find that still very, hard. Very hard. Marc Winter (29:24) Have you ever, just to wrap up, that's helpful. Is there a super mom or super dad that you feel like models, like where you're just in awe of, you're like, I can't believe this person cuts shit like they do. You know what I realized? No. I have the same answer, no. Paul Fattinger (29:41) No, no. mean, their dads and moms were really impressed on how they, you know, they get lots of shit done, but I also know they struggle a lot. I'm not sure they're very happy with it. So I really don't know. I think it's hard. ⁓ and I think frankly, also we might take too little time, ⁓ to actually reflect on it. What I find interesting and maybe that's another podcast to be honest is kind of how you would or how I would do things differently knowing the things I know now and also kind of how you plan for it and how you set your goals and priorities in different phases of your kids life and that journey and how you balance that also with your partner. Because I think that's also a big part in all of this. How do you handle this in a relationship? I mean, which are the tasks that you take and the tasks that... your partner takes and we all know, know, as men we, you know, very, very often take, take much less and feel more overwhelmed with less load. I that's kind of a, I think that's kind of a given. But I also see now, you know, with the benefit of time, what Marc Winter (30:32) That's right. Man sup feeling more overwhelmed with less load. That's that's Paul Fattinger (30:52) No, come on. It's very clear. It's very clear. I mean, the mental load is a thing and we have no clue. We really don't have a clue. ⁓ And I get confused as when I have the kids during the week and I get confused as fuck with all their activities and where they have to be when is like, it takes so much of my mental space. not sure. I'm not. mean, it's hard. It's really, really hard. So ⁓ I'm at all every mom who organizes this in their jobs. Marc Winter (30:54) Very clear. I agree. I feel like my wife when she, totally, totally, I feel like my wife mocks me every day because she feels like, when it comes to kids and organizing, I'm ⁓ like, ⁓ not even a grade school student, like below that, know, about what I'm able to do and focus, you know? ⁓ Paul Fattinger (31:34) But you're also hopeless. that's also like who you are is a bit difficult, right? I mean, it's like, you know, you're going to... No, it's true. It's true. But also, you know, your wife's super organized and German and da da da. And you are also sometimes a bit like, you know, ⁓ good morning. How's it going? You know, so it's like... Marc Winter (31:41) You also have your head in the clouds constantly. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Spoken like the Austrian isn't that different than the German. Exactly. It's just. ⁓ Paul Fattinger (32:03) No, but I find that very interesting. maybe it's just a quick preview in that. think if we knew also how things could change and if we were aware of, know, these are three, four years where this is my priority and this is what I give up, you know, for everyone and the other way around. And then things change around. I find it very interesting how things then over the course of, you know, probably these that were just said, 12, 15 years. Marc Winter (32:20) Mm. Paul Fattinger (32:31) can change and roles can change and as much easier I think for me right now to take on more responsibility to take more load and I think I'm taking way more load than I have than I did like eight years ago. you know, but that's a preview because I think little Valentin here has ⁓ demands the presence of his father. Marc Winter (32:34) Yeah. Mm. Yes, he does. This little guy has just woke up a little bit early. Paul Fattinger (32:55) Yeah. ⁓ here we go. Here we go. Marc Winter (32:59) Actually, that's a that's a perfect close to this to this podcast. was like ambition and parenthood. Yeah, exactly. Like Paul Fattinger (33:04) It is, it is actually as it may we come back Marc Winter (33:09) So ⁓ that was a little interruption with with baby Valentine waking up. ⁓ And that is the that's the point. Paul Fattinger (33:16) Here we go. was, was. Okay. Point. Case in point. Marc Winter (33:22) Exactly. You want to be present and your baby wakes up. But c'est la vie. It's a champagne problem to say the least. ⁓ Paul Fattinger (33:31) No, it is. What nice one, think, and maybe nice ones also to kind of continue on and really curious also to hear, you know, what do you guys, our listeners think? You know, you can always post us a comment or write to us, you know, so on other topics that you might want to hear us talk about. Marc Winter (33:52) Yeah, and if anyone has any advice for me, you know, let me know because I could use I Beyond Paul's wisdom What are your tips and tricks for balance for finding the balance between? ⁓ Paul Fattinger (34:05) I also need them because as we know, wisdom is also a very theoretical concept, right? So you can be thrown out of the window by reality very quickly, very soon. In any case, Mark, do you have any terminators and or idiots of the week for us? Or do you want me to start so you can think of it? Marc Winter (34:10) Yeah, that's that's That's true. I do. So no, no, no, no, no, I've got so many terminators. So so so I'm going to choose to. ⁓ Can I do terminators first? That's good. So no. Are we doing it? ⁓ OK. First of all, ⁓ we had a ⁓ super big election results this this this week in the States. New York has a new mayor. Paul Fattinger (34:38) Yeah, go ahead. Marc Winter (34:55) ⁓ We have ⁓ new female governors ⁓ in New Jersey and Virginia. whatever you think of their politics, they all ran fantastic campaigns and just in awe of new energy. Everyone always thinks the Democrats are down and out and they put out crazy numbers. And so it's ⁓ a heartening bit of ⁓ pride. That's the first bit of Terminators and the second bit of Terminators is everyone who downloaded and listened to our podcast. I'm feeling deep gratitude and love for you guys. You. Paul Fattinger (35:32) Nice one. All right, here we go. mean, can, mean, absolutely. That's also mine, but I also have another one. my, no, mine is we, it was my daughter's seventh birthday and, and we went to see a concert for her seventh birthday with her and the two boys in Cologne, actually, it was quite a trip to see Benson Boone. Marc Winter (35:41) Okay, Paul Fattinger (36:04) Who is my Terminator of the Week? put out... went to Cologne. It was the only... We took a plane. Yes, I was in Cologne. Marc Winter (36:04) You went to Cologne? Wait, how did you get to, did you fly there? Okay, I guess yeah, I guess there are flights between Cologne. Well, funny, crazy. Paul Fattinger (36:20) Yeah, plenty actually. And so we flew to Cologne, we went to Lanxess Arena, we saw Benson Boone who put out an incredible show. I do think that, you know, my ex wife Claudia and I had more fun than the kids because they were really, really tired by the time the whole thing started. But it was a really, really, really cool show. Heads off to the guy, 23 years old, proper rock star, really proper rock star, great show. Very, very nice. And I also think, know, we are also bit terminators of the week, co-parents of the year, I would say to pull this off is also ⁓ not, I would say selbstverständlich, as we say in German. Yeah. So I'm very proud of us that we did that and we had a good time and the kids also had a good time. And yeah, so that's the terminator of the week. Among others. Yeah. Marc Winter (37:00) Yeah. Yeah. Cool. My idea of the week, I just need to stick with the political theme here, but as you know, our government shut down. So basically they've reduced flights by 20 % in this country because you can't pay for air traffic controllers, which is insane. And then there's also debate of withdrawing money for food stamps, is a crazy time to be in the States. And our idiot president ⁓ yesterday through a massive soiree at his Mar-a-Lago kind of event with like ⁓ big balls, giant stakes, like this kind of insane thing. And you just think to yourself, like, do not read any history about, you know, like the French Revolution or any kind of thing, how human beings respond to this when others suffer. So ⁓ that's my... Paul Fattinger (38:04) Yeah. Marc Winter (38:05) You could be needing a week most weeks, but this one just struck to me is especially poignant when things feel like they're cracking. Paul Fattinger (38:12) Okay, that's fair. I'm trying to stay away from politics here. I'm doing, I'm discovering the beauty of naming things as it is of the week rather than people. I feel better about this. And I'm going to call out the whole kid's birthday madness. And I also know we've had this before. I remember when I was in New York because today we had my daughter's birthday in parallel and also My middle son was invited to a birthday because he's invited to a birthday basically every weekend because of school and soccer club and blah, blah. And I spent, I think, two hours in the car today driving back and forth from one to the next day. So I might actually be the idiot that I put up with this shit. But it was, great parties, but this whole, this whole, this whole business around kids birthday parties and the EDC of what we go through. actually I met a friend, you know, like a friend. Marc Winter (38:46) my god, meh. haha Paul Fattinger (39:07) of mine who brought his kid to you know my kids birthday party is like listen I gotta go because I have to bring my son same thing to a football birthday party so when I saw him again when he picked up his kid is like I asked him hey man so you look like you just sat in the car for the past two hours and he's like that's exactly what I did because they were at opposite sides of town so that was this Sunday afternoon and also mine so anyways I Marc Winter (39:32) Why do we do this to ourselves? We just need to... ⁓ Paul Fattinger (39:35) I have no idea because they will not remember that we did that for them. Marc Winter (39:41) That's for sure. That's for sure. All right, buddy. Well, listen, great to see you. Take care and thanks for the wisdom. Paul Fattinger (39:43) On that note, great to see you have a great Sunday afternoon with the family and stuff. see ya. Ciao. Marc Winter (39:50) Likewise. Bye.