guyslikeus EP18: the nervous system with the stress-buster Johannes Eisenburger

Paul Fattinger (00:10) Welcome to guys like us to this podcast about dream states at times. It's about dreams. No, really it is. It is our podcast, you know, actually Mark and I, Mark and my podcast, which fuck this shit. I'm going to do it again. ⁓ Marc Winter (00:27) Yeah, dude. Johannes Gaan Eisenburger (00:28) You wanna hit? Paul Fattinger (00:30) It's okay, just keep it. Now you're offending me. Marc Winter (00:30) It's just... Paul Fattinger (00:35) Welcome to Guys Like Us. If you're new to this podcast, this is a podcast about all the things that you start thinking about when you are and we got to admit it, even Johannes, who looks so youthful here today as our guest, you get to that kind of midlife phase and you'll hear stories about family, leadership, relationships, friendships, fun nights out. know, weird things that you can sniff off a wooden piece that the shamans do. And George, you know, all the things that shaped us and continue to shape and move us. we hope there is something in there for you as well. And in today's episode, we actually have our very first guest on this show. So we don't only have ⁓ Mike joining us as always from his beautiful building in his wine basement business in Manhattan. We also have Marc Winter (01:21) Hello? Paul Fattinger (01:27) Johannes, who is sitting 10 meters away from me in my living room because we are still not smart enough to record in the same room. I'm sorry guys, 10 episodes later. I'm still an idiot. And myself. So that's your host today. How are you guys feeling? Marc Winter (01:43) How you doing, Paul? I'll go first. I am good. It's been an intense weekend. ⁓ I kids birthday parties, my own kid, friends going out. It was an intense week of a lot of work, ⁓ refreshed. Good to be here with you guys. And ⁓ I had a refreshing guys night last night with ⁓ some old high school friends we haven't connected in some time. So ⁓ it's an interesting place, which I'll save for later, but that's always good for the soul. Paul Fattinger (02:06) Really? Okay. Johannes, you go first. How's your wig been? Marc Winter (02:14) What about you guys? Johannes Gaan Eisenburger (02:18) I go first. My weekend was great because I was here in Vienna. also, ⁓ well, I did something that I had on my mind for some time and now it finally happened and manifested. it was also, you could basically see Mark, it was like a guys night, but a different forms of guys night. ⁓ hosted a journey ⁓ in nervous system training and self-regulation that Paul participated in and a bunch of his friends and some other people that were not Paul's friends. Marc Winter (02:39) Wow. Okay. Johannes Gaan Eisenburger (02:47) And we were a group of six or seven men gathering in the space and then meeting each other in a different form. I also said it yesterday, was beautiful for, I think it's beautiful for men to get together aside of what obviously is also very fun, to get the night out and everything and the drinking, but actually from a place of deep, deep, deep presence and connectedness and regulation, which I think... No, no, I think which is something that I would love to, I am bringing more into the world because I think it's very, very needed. So I am very happy. I'm very happy that this happened and that the group was wonderful. Marc Winter (03:20) Very cool. Paul Fattinger (03:24) Nice man. And you already teased our topic for today actually is the nervous system, which is going be one of our nicest titles. know, episode 18 about the nervous system. People are not going to know exactly what the fuck has hit them. And I forgot to mention before this, this is what we're going to talk about today. And I'm really, really looking forward to this because obviously Johanna has been a very special person in my life and I've known him for a year and a half. Marc Winter (03:34) Certainly the cleanest. Yeah. Johannes Gaan Eisenburger (03:37) Hahaha Thank you. Paul Fattinger (03:50) Yeah, it's quite some cool things that we did together. So I'm happy to have him on the pod. So I obviously had the same experience yesterday from a different perspective, but I was in the same room. So that was awesome. Very busy work week. In fact, very intense to start something new. That's intense, I think is the right word. And yeah, but super happy to be here and to talk about the nervous system, what it is, what it does, why we should even give a shit, really. Marc Winter (04:08) Nice. Johannes Gaan Eisenburger (04:17) Thank Marc Winter (04:17) I love it. love it. And Johannes, it's great to finally meet you. And I'm so thrilled that you're the first guest on our little podcast here. well, I'd like to just start from the audience perspective and just ask you like, you know, in a couple of few sentences, know, who are you? What do you do outside of grab a six men in a room together in a circle and take them on a journey? Sounds pretty amazing. Johannes Gaan Eisenburger (04:22) Yeah, I this. I'm so honored. It's a really difficult question for me to answer. Somebody asked me today and I think in one, if I had to distill it into one sentence is that I'm on a mission to help busy people live, lead and love from a state of presence, not survival. That's what I do. Marc Winter (05:00) Wow, wow, that's extraordinary succinct. And I can imagine as a busy person myself, probably like, fall like, presence feels, yeah, Presence feels incredibly elusive, to say the least. How did you fall into something like that? Paul Fattinger (05:11) I don't know what you're talking about. Johannes Gaan Eisenburger (05:22) Just to say presence feels elusive presence. I would say it's really actually our factory setting I mean, this is really who we are in the end and this is what we've experienced yesterday as we were sitting in this circle And I want to quote one of the participants who said yesterday and he came in I met him at lunch Randomly never met this person before I told him about the upcoming journey in two hours time and he canceled all his plans He had also a guys night planned with his buddies. He canceled it He was hosting it and he came to the journey and then in the end, it was very cool. Very courageous And he said in the end, after the journey said, you know, I came in here as a stranger, but I'm leaving feeling so connected to you guys without knowing any one of you more connected than I am with hardly anybody else. And this was a huge gift which shows me again, yeah, why do this work really? So the presence is, is not this elusive thing. It's, being authentic. It's being grounded. It's being real. It's being there in the room where we are. ⁓ Marc Winter (06:06) Wow. Amazing. Johannes Gaan Eisenburger (06:19) as who we are without the narratives and the stories and the stress and all of that stuff. Marc Winter (06:24) How, first of all, that sounds incredible and worthy, a worthy mission of a life's work. Johannes Gaan Eisenburger (06:31) I think so. Paul Fattinger (06:32) We do a longer one in January, Mike. You can come join us. You should. Actually, we do a weekend. I mean, with your two words of German, you're going to survive, you know. And we also speak a little bit of English here. No problem. Yeah. Marc Winter (06:36) Yeah, okay. Johannes Gaan Eisenburger (06:38) Yes, please join the weekend retreat. Yeah, that's going to be a lot of fun. Marc Winter (06:41) Whoa. ⁓ Well, I mean, I think I'm intrigued. Let's put it this way. That's for sure. I'd love to hear a little bit more about it. I'm sure our listeners will as well. yeah, take us through that. Like, how does that how does a journey happen? What do you think about that? Yeah. Johannes Gaan Eisenburger (06:53) Good. That's good. Yeah. Paul Fattinger (07:03) No, but wait, can I jump in here for a sec? Because I think Johannes Gaan Eisenburger (07:05) Yeah, it's over. Paul Fattinger (07:06) that's kind of like, because you asked something that Johannes Dorj is like, how did you actually, you know, get into this stuff? I mean, it's not like you were, you know, how did you, yeah. Johannes Gaan Eisenburger (07:17) Yeah, no, was definitely not born like that. And I would have never... Yeah. No, that's something that we need to change. ⁓ As often... Thank you. I like that a lot. Presence teacher, never heard that before. I call myself the stress buster, by the way. Paul Fattinger (07:20) Yeah, also you don't kind of go to school for that exactly. Unfortunately, fact, right? I mean, it's not like, I'm going to be a presence teacher. I'm gonna call you that now. Marc Winter (07:37) Mm, mm. Paul Fattinger (07:38) Okay, fair enough. I'm going to call it that then. But likewise, you don't wake up at 18 and you go through Matura and Austrian. I'm going to be a stress buster. I'm going to be a ball buster maybe, but stress buster. Johannes Gaan Eisenburger (07:44) No, definitely not. Definitely not. ⁓ Marc Winter (07:49) I have a theory about this. Go ahead, Your Highness. Johannes Gaan Eisenburger (07:51) You mentioned the age of 18 and this is kind of this was definitely the age of 19 to be more precise was it was a very defining turning point in my life when I had a really ⁓ severe and tragic and unnecessary accident that ⁓ almost killed me. But the gift in it was a near death experience. So a very profound mystical experience of leaving my very injured body after it stopped working. Marc Winter (08:10) Mm. Johannes Gaan Eisenburger (08:18) And ⁓ and ⁓ literally having this experience that you you read about it, have many people have heard about to leave the body and to see myself and and to enter into another dimension really ⁓ of just pure. ⁓ And every time I talk about it, touches me. It's really funny ⁓ of just pure. can only say it's hard to put into words, but it's like just light. You know, it's like this coming from this picture like. ⁓ an ambulance car racing through the streets, blood everywhere, panic, people screaming, me dying and all this stuff. And then suddenly you get out of that and you see this whole thing, literally yourself and all these people and you rise, you ascend and suddenly you're in this field of just light without shadow and just oneness and then the most incredible feeling of home really. That's what it is actually, the feeling of. of I am going home now. This is this is who I really, really am. Pretty incredible. So that, course, has has changed my life. It's not like that. I woke up enlightened the next day and quite the contrary. Then for a couple of years I, you know, I lived life differently with a very much a YOLO, you know, type of attitude. But I often say what happened to me at the age of 19 is what happened to many people at the age of, let's say, 45, 50 when they have a stroke or like, you know, some kind of health scare and that leads them to wake up and say, okay, hang on a second. What is life really about and what really matters and who am I really? that type of journey to then figure out the things that really are important. And that's how my life started or my adult life started and brought me onto the path. Marc Winter (09:41) Mm. There are two things which you said that ⁓ gave me warmth and assurance. So the first is that you saw some light and warmth after leaving your body. Well, I mean, that's a good thing, It's a positive note. Not to bring some humor to this, but I remember when the comedian Bob Odenkirk, ⁓ he was the Saul, better call Saul. Johannes Gaan Eisenburger (09:58) . Paul Fattinger (10:10) Yeah, it's good. Actually, it's a positive note there. Johannes Gaan Eisenburger (10:14) Yeah. ⁓ These two, very important. Marc Winter (10:25) You know, had a heart attack on set and he kept cracking up. He's like, yeah, the most disappointing thing is like, I didn't see any white, no warmth, nothing, no answers. My body, know, I just heard voices. It's like, yeah, he's like texting us, but he's like, I'm okay. No, I didn't see any white. It was just like it. ⁓ But no, so I take assurances for that. But actually the... ⁓ Johannes Gaan Eisenburger (10:37) Yeah. Paul Fattinger (10:39) is this. Johannes Gaan Eisenburger (10:46) Yeah Paul Fattinger (10:46) You ⁓ Marc Winter (10:53) The YOLO idea, so that's really interesting, a gift to have at 19, in a way, right? And when you say you lived life differently than you would have normally, what does that mean in your mind? Were you taking more risks? you knowing that things could happen at any time? Johannes Gaan Eisenburger (11:09) Yes, definitely. A few things like so I then after I got out of hospital, everything I started studying economics and hated it. And I had the opportunity to move to China. spoke about this before for an internship. And then I just stayed there already as like, why would I waste my time doing something that I don't really feel is valuable? Obviously, know, China 20 years ago was very, very exciting. So I stayed there. And after a couple of years doing all this cool entrepreneurial stuff and doing businesses, it dawned on me, it's like, actually, you know, I really feel called to something else. I feel called to being an artist. feel called to like live the creative spark that I feel in me. And, and it was very difficult, technically, because I was surrounded by people who doing the, you know, the stuff that we do, you do the right studies, you do the, you the, the, the, you strive for achievement, for money, for all that stuff. So did I. I was like, hang on. Marc Winter (11:48) Mm. Johannes Gaan Eisenburger (12:06) I have a gift that this is like, I'm still alive. I could be dead. This is like my second chance. So I need to follow what is true to me in my heart, no matter what the world, no matter what the family, no matter what society says, I have to do it. So then I became an actor and, ⁓ and my whole life, was pretty much about following my truth and truth evolves just like we do. ⁓ so, have I, so, yeah, this, this to answer your question risk. I don't. People often say, my God, you're so courageous. I couldn't do that. I don't think it's courage. I think it's natural. have to follow your truth. You have to follow what your heart tells you. Why, why not? You could be dead in like after this podcast or the exit, but it might be so. Marc Winter (12:48) Totally. Totally. No, very aligned philosophy. ⁓ So, okay. I know this is about life story. You mentioned you became an actor. So you just kind of let that flu. So you're like, life is short. Exactly. Do I hear that? Johannes Gaan Eisenburger (13:02) I became an actor. became, I started acting. Paul Fattinger (13:05) Did it just? Johannes Gaan Eisenburger (13:09) Yeah. Yeah. Very funny. Like I moved to LA for like some courses to really figure out if this acting thing was for me. And then I did. And then I realized, okay, this is what I want to do. And then I ended up back in Austria. I studied acting here in Vienna and did that until at a point where I realized, okay, the next calling, this is then when I got into all the plant medicines and ayahuasca and all this type of stuff and more the inner journey. Marc Winter (13:35) you Johannes Gaan Eisenburger (13:36) Because now comes the caveat, just because I had this new death experience doesn't mean life was easy. I was very driven. I was very traumatized. I had a very dysregulative nervous system to quote again the topic of today's show. And I fell into depression a lot. I wasn't happy. I achieved. I was standing in front of this famous theater here in Vienna as I moved here and I said, I'm going to be on the stage. And lo and behold, I was on the stage. Paul Fattinger (14:02) guys Johannes Gaan Eisenburger (14:05) And in other stages, and I was in TV and I did all this stuff and I reached what I wanted to reach. And I wasn't a good, you know, like track of becoming, you know, becoming successful in my chosen field. And I was depressed and unhappy. And so I started to wonder like, okay, like if this outer achievement thing doesn't matter if it's acting or if it's business or whatever else, if what I projected, if, if I reached that, then I'm happy. If that doesn't work, if that doesn't fulfill me. then maybe I have to search the answers inside. And then this whole inner journey began with meditation and all these kinds of things that led me, again, it's a long story. I'm happy to go into it you ask for it, to becoming what I do today in guiding other people into their inner journey and figuring out who they actually are and regulating the nervous system, which is very important part. Paul Fattinger (14:55) Let's talk about that a little bit because I mean, usually we do, you know that we usually have a glass of wine on this podcast, right? And today we didn't even talk about it because I felt a little bit bad, but what are you having today, Marc? Marc Winter (15:08) ⁓ I am embarrassed to say thank you for I was hoping I was gonna get away with it. I was hoping I was gonna get away with it. I was like Okay, I am drinking ⁓ an energy drink because ⁓ Daddy went out a little but daddy went out a little hard last night I know and this this is a special one. It's called Celsius. You guys know what this is Paul Fattinger (15:15) Because I knew I saw this can a few times and I'm I'm not gonna let that fucker go. I was like, I wanna see that. Johannes Gaan Eisenburger (15:26) Energy drink? Wow. No, but it looks great. Marc Winter (15:35) Okay, this is perhaps, I'm gonna take a slightly off piece for a minute. This is slightly the greatest single energy drink I have ever had. And you know, like there's Red Bulls and there's stuff like this. I mean, look at this bullshit. It says it's essential energy, it accelerates metabolism, it burns body fat, all in one can. None of that could be true. But I will tell you, when you have one of these, like... Johannes Gaan Eisenburger (15:47) don't know if I wanted. Wow Paul Fattinger (15:58) Okay, I want it. I'm gonna send me a few. Marc Winter (16:03) the high you get, it's like a mental clarity a little bit. Like it's really interesting. And I think that's why it's big business. It's like my heart isn't shooting up. I'm focused, I'm like kind of calm. Johannes Gaan Eisenburger (16:10) Nice. Paul Fattinger (16:14) Hmm. Johannes Gaan Eisenburger (16:16) I want to say that I really wanted to have a glass of whiskey for this ⁓ recording, but Paul told me we shouldn't do it and he hasn't got my whiskey at home. Paul Fattinger (16:21) It is true. No, I didn't say we shouldn't do it. I said I banned all hard liquor out of my apartment. Which says a thing or two. Yeah, I did. The only thing I have left is that bottle of Rochelt Williams that we're still waiting to drink with Hansi. Marc Winter (16:26) What? Really? Okay, really? that because you were hitting the bottle so hard? Paul Fattinger (16:43) No, it's because and I think it goes a little bit back to what we're trying to talk about as well with the nervous system because you know if I have this whiskey at home and ice cubes in my fridge and I come home and I feel a little bit like I want to wind down that's a very very easy thing to do and it's so nice to have in a glass right and it makes this sound when you shake it and the first sound when the whiskey hits the ice is fucking awesome it's like this first sound when you hit this you know when you light the cigarettes Marc Winter (17:01) Yes. Yes. Yes. Paul Fattinger (17:13) Yeah. So even when I talk about it, want to go downstairs, get a pack. Exactly. Here you go. it is eliminating those things that I am very easily falling into when I feel agitated because I hadn't learned other ways to deal with that agitation. It is how I call it now, right? When I feel activated, I'm... Marc Winter (17:14) yeah, yeah of course. Johannes Gaan Eisenburger (17:17) Nah, I wanna smoke. Marc Winter (17:19) Hahaha. Paul Fattinger (17:36) hyper, you come home after a day of 12 hours of meetings or 10 hours of meetings and kids and ba boo, ba bee, then you go home and you have to do this and you sit there and you're like, what the fuck? I need to go to sleep? Really? Really? Yeah. And... Marc Winter (17:45) Yeah, yeah, My neighbor gifted me a bunch of whiskey samples. He's in the alcohol industry, these little things like this. I'm just, like last week, Vera and I were just making a habit of just like, let's just try a sample. And now I'm throwing them out of the house. So I'm just saying this I could relate. Yeah. Paul Fattinger (18:00) Exactly. Exactly. Here you go. And that's that's what I'm saying. Johannes Gaan Eisenburger (18:07) Yeah. Paul Fattinger (18:08) And I'm having by the way, I'm having tea because I'm still not 100 percent white. But also, Johannes, you wanted a glass of whiskey, but then you had something else. What did you have? OK, I was talking about the wooden thing, the shamanic thing. Yeah. ⁓ Johannes Gaan Eisenburger (18:15) Yeah, well, I'm not having ginger tea. It's not very exciting. Marc Winter (18:20) Well, yeah, I was like, I was like, Johannes Gaan Eisenburger (18:23) ⁓ the rapé. The rapé, yeah, rapé is great. Did you want me to give an intro on what rapé is? Marc Winter (18:27) So, so hold on. Yeah, I Paul Fattinger (18:30) Yeah, I think we need to talk about rap. I mean, this was the third thing I really referred to when we started today. Marc Winter (18:30) just. I would like to take our listeners through this idea. Like, Johannes and I are just meeting each other and suddenly, right before we roll, he takes this wooden thing and just snorts it all the way up his nose. And I was like, I was just mad. I was like, did he just do a mind? know, something? No, no, it's ⁓ tobacco. Well, it's rapé. Okay, so you can explain to us what it is and illuminate. Paul Fattinger (18:53) You The answer is no. It is rap, Which, ⁓ so, exactly. Johannes Gaan Eisenburger (19:05) You can say if we spoke German, you can still say, a nasal genomen, which is colloquial in Austrian for taking a line. But no, it's actually not drugs. It's it's it's I can show it. It's it's snuff. It's shamanic. It's what shamans and tribes use in the the, you know, the tribes in the in the Amazon and wherever. And it's it's a blend of tobacco, but not like cigarette tobacco, but the original ancient tobacco called mapacho. And and it's Paul Fattinger (19:11) Yeah, yeah. Marc Winter (19:13) Okay. Johannes Gaan Eisenburger (19:33) Every tribe does it differently. have their traditions and the rituals with it and they sing with it and they ground some plants and ashes from sacred trees and all this type of stuff. And the tribes people, use it, for example, during ayahuasca ceremonies or they use it before they go hunting because it makes it very sharp and clear, but it doesn't get you high. It's tobacco. It's strong in the sense that it hits your nicotine receptors. But that is that. I use it. Marc Winter (19:47) Mm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Johannes Gaan Eisenburger (20:01) as most people in that sort of spiritual shamanic bubble for grounding, for centering. It's like, I always say it's like doing an hour of meditation within 10 seconds. Yeah. And it's like, have this applicator thing that you put it inside and then you blow it up your nose with it. But, know, it's more than snorting. You just blow it strongly. So it hits your brain and immediately, you know, all the brain fog or whatever you might have, it's gone. Marc Winter (20:11) Cool. Sounds amazing. Paul Fattinger (20:27) I see, I love it. Because I know Mark, I see it in his eyes. It's like, it's like when you tell a kid about a new Lego before Christmas, and next thing he's going to tell you is like, daddy, I really want this Lego. Johannes Gaan Eisenburger (20:36) Hahaha Marc Winter (20:41) I definitely want to try. so finally, where does one acquire something like that out of curiosity? Johannes Gaan Eisenburger (20:44) Yeah. Paul Fattinger (20:48) Ask your full friend. Marc Winter (20:50) Yeah, it's a friend at the airport. Johannes Gaan Eisenburger (20:51) Yeah, usually, I mean, usually, it's good question, you know, you have places where people sell it, you get it, it always comes from the tribes, and then people import it and there are places where you can buy it. So this is from a source I have in Switzerland, but you can buy it anywhere. like pretty much everybody in sort of my bubble has it. Not for sure, 100%, you need to know where. Marc Winter (21:05) Cool. Nice. Paul Fattinger (21:10) I'm sure in New York you're gonna find it. Marc Winter (21:12) yeah, I'm not, man, I was just curious. Johannes Gaan Eisenburger (21:15) But I'm telling you, like when you're not used to it, it's not pleasant at first. Like the first couple of times in my very active shamanic time, and when the shaman would give this to me during ayahuasca ceremony, it's, it's, my God, it's horrible. You know, it gets painful and it makes you puke and it's, it's, it's not nice. Paul Fattinger (21:32) Hey guys, it's beautiful. It's like your first cigarette, right? I mean, it's amazing. Okay, let us get back on peace, which is very atypical for me, because I was kind of asking this question with an intention and talking about the whiskey to come down. And I know we're kind of going to this topic from the other end, but Johannes Gaan Eisenburger (21:35) It's it's it's Paul Fattinger (21:56) Why is this so important? Why do so many of us do that actually and do need a glass of wine, a cigarette, other behaviors to have the feeling that we can calm down? I mean, can you maybe guide us through that a little bit, Johannes, and talk to the nervous system and how it works for us and serves us and sometimes doesn't maybe. Johannes Gaan Eisenburger (22:16) Yeah, sure. ⁓ so like the things that we do, to calm down is essentially to regulate, right? So like, you're, if you're just, you said, before you come home in the evening and you're stressed and you're still wired and your nervous system is still like, you know, on, on like doing mode or on basically on fight flight, which is a sympathetic activation. If we were to talk in, in the terms, sympathetic nervous system is what gives you, ⁓ the energy and, normally like also during the day, just to get up and do stuff. You need that. Marc Winter (22:34) Mm-hmm. Johannes Gaan Eisenburger (22:48) But obviously it's also that same part of the nervous system that triggers the fight flight response, which we need when we're in danger. And which, most, you know, everybody knows it's adrenaline, it's cortisol, it's all these things. It's all natural. That's all good. The problem is that we humans and most people in the sort of the high performing world of business that I also work in with my clients, which is mostly people in, you know, private equity, VC tech, you know, all that fast paced high pressure stuff. Is that. Marc Winter (22:55) Yeah. Johannes Gaan Eisenburger (23:16) We get stuck in this high level of activation, this high level of constant drive, which is actually fight flight, which is a lot of stress hormones in the system. And this is okay if it happens once, and then you regulate down into a calmer, more regulated, rest and digest parasympathetic state. But the problem is most of us don't. We get stuck in that higher activation because the nervous system does not have self-regulation. self-regulation is the key word so that the nervous system by itself can calm down from moments of stress and regulate and then the body can rest and digest and relax and recover to then you know go up again on whatever we have to do but most people get stuck and then of course we all want to chill and then we need to use whatever works for us and society mostly it's alcohol or those society you know typically available drugs to momentarily bring us down into a state of relaxation. But the problem is soon after we have back up and then we have this loop of, you know, using things to bring us down and it can, it can be, it can be excessive sports as well. It can be, it can be sex, it can be shopping. It of course is alcohol or smoking. We need a thing that temporarily, temporarily brings relief. But once you see that, that curve of doing something again and again and again to momentarily Marc Winter (24:18) Mm. Johannes Gaan Eisenburger (24:38) bring a relief, but it doesn't have long-term benefits, we call that addiction. And, ⁓ and, it's, it's, normal. Like we want to rest, but the problem is we don't really rest if we drink in the evening or something. Marc Winter (24:41) Mmm. Sure. couple things that you said that seemed really that resonate a lot. think this high stress, these high stress jobs, mean, they're the well, first of all, the nervous system can regulate itself, which is interesting because I think also the addiction also takes form of that level of stress in a weird way, you know, I people are hooked into a high pressure jobs that can't imagine anything else. And the fight or flight idea, you know, Johannes Gaan Eisenburger (25:02) Mm. Yeah. Marc Winter (25:17) It's interesting, like, the way that nervous system works, because my understanding is that in fight or flight, the blood flows away from your heart and into your limbs, right, when you're really scared, right, when you're kind of running. And your inability to be present. Johannes Gaan Eisenburger (25:31) Yeah. Marc Winter (25:35) and regulate is, but without being the self-awareness of what's happening is really challenging, right? So that's fascinating to hear. Johannes Gaan Eisenburger (25:42) Yeah. Yeah. Because what you said just now is that it's true, you know, like people are addicted to stress because in the end, then we create this feedback loop of stress hormones in our system. And most, I said, like most high achievers, most high performers who are presumably very early on wired for this type of state. It's the same state, you know, that makes you successful is also the same state that brings into burnout because the body at a certain point, which is over here at this, at this age. Marc Winter (25:54) Hmm. Johannes Gaan Eisenburger (26:11) From 35 onwards, the body just can't cope with the chronic level of stress hormones and pressure. So at some point, then that finds its way out through burnout, through illnesses, etc. Because rest for these people, including my past self, if you say these people are always speaking up my past self, rest equals danger. Marc Winter (26:31) There's also, you're making me think that part of the reason of the stress addiction is that people assign meaning to their work of the highest order. And when I think about kind of your, what I understand the journey to be in your, know, having. Johannes Gaan Eisenburger (26:42) Mm. Mm. Marc Winter (26:52) done my fair share of psychedelics, never Ayahuasca, however. But one thing I know that happens when you do these types of things is that you understand what you thought was meaningful is actually meaningless in a way, relative to what really matters, your own self, your own sense of self, your own purpose, et cetera. And so it's a caught a meaning realignment between Johannes Gaan Eisenburger (27:05) Yeah. Mmm. Mmm. Yeah. Marc Winter (27:20) you know, yourself, which feels one way and then your true self, right? Paul Fattinger (27:25) You know, two things that just, sorry, I just wanted to chime in. One, what you just said, right? I mean, to get addicted to stress in a sense is addicted to drama in a sense also, right? It's same with relationships that go up and down where, you know, you then, you if you had them look... Johannes Gaan Eisenburger (27:35) Mm-hmm. Paul Fattinger (27:41) jobs and so on. other thing and Johannes explained to us yesterday in a very nice way and unfortunately we can't do it here, you how the nervous system works and kind of like there's a curve and what I really like about this is that you know we tend to go you know especially there's a lot of I mean at in my Instagram bubble you hear a lot of the you know of vagus nerve sympathetic nervous system so it's all over the place it's kind of a I don't know how narrow my bubble is and if it actually is also exists out there but I think it is getting more mainstream, which is a great thing, but as many things, it's very much black and white, right? And so you go out there and it's like, you need to be chilled. You need to be in the present and you're parasympathetic. But actually from what I learned from you, that's also not true because if you were dead, we were like, we would be like the cows in Switzerland standing around just chewing grass all the time, right? You need your sympathetic part to activate yourself, to go out there, to do some things, but you know, in an activated, still present steady mind that doesn't overshoot. But then, you know, the sympathetic nervous system part of our body when stress gets more and more and more, it moves from and we didn't do this yesterday, I think from this I am when you're chilled and know, parasympathetic to I can't, but then it also goes to I guess, I must, I have to and these states and at some point can maybe can overshoot then I can't when you're actually in the freeze more than the other part takes over. So like in everything in life is a gray zone, right? So we need both parts and both parts are good. Marc Winter (28:56) Hmm. Johannes Gaan Eisenburger (28:56) Yeah. Paul Fattinger (29:10) It's just too much of one is not good. I think too much of neither is actually good in that sense. our body somehow is maybe is also simplified, but I always like these things that is not just black and white. And if we were just all super chilled and sitting, we also need to be activated a little bit to achieve things, to have an ambition, to get up in the morning, do our chores. The question is, where does it stop? Did I say that? You you're looking at me like as I something wrong. So I'm asking myself, did I not get the, did I not get the class right? Am I getting a B or am I getting a C? Which would be terrible because I'm like clearly a performer. I mean, it sucks to have a C. Give me a B plus at least. Johannes Gaan Eisenburger (29:41) Hahaha Marc Winter (29:46) Was I a good sir? Exactly. Yeah, you can't even let go of that. Johannes Gaan Eisenburger (29:57) There's so much I could say to that. ⁓ First of all, if you wanted to, I did a video with that, what we did yesterday. Not yesterday, but I recorded it once and you can, know, if you want, you can put it in your show notes and people can watch it where I explained that. And I'm not sure what type of stuff on your Instagram feed you're speaking to the people say you just need to be chill. You know, it's a tricky thing because Paul Fattinger (30:07) We're going to share that. It's a great video. Johannes Gaan Eisenburger (30:23) All of that, all of those states are natural. Let's not forget that. The problem is like if we get stuck somewhere and one of the most important sentences, I also said it yesterday, is like, you can be anywhere you want as long as you know where you are. So once you do this exercises that I do with this map, where you map your own nervous system and your own states and you really learn like, this is how I default to, this is where I default to. And this is then what my life looks like. Because I say your world is not, the world is not what it is. The world is a mirror of what's going inside of you specifically. in the state of your nervous system. And that influences how you think, how you feel, how you relate to others, how you work with your team, how you think about yourself, how you experience the world, everything. It's, not subjective. It's highly objective. Not the other way around ⁓ of how you're wired. And once you learn that and see, this is my default state and this is my baseline. So my baseline is more being like highly activated, but there is a way out of that. And even the. highly activated state is not, so it's not about blaming yourself. What I wanted to say, because then often comes the shame. my God, you know, I, I should be more calm. I should be feeling better. I should be grateful for what I have, but I'm just not feeling it. I'm still stressed, but I have two nannies and millions in my account and I've heard this from my clients, but I'm still stressed. And then you start to beat yourself up. That's a shitty spiral as well because, because it's about understanding where you default to and coming in with. passion to understand why you are wired the way you're wired and then to see, how can I learn the tools to help my nervous system regulate and self-regulate so that I change my baseline, which does not mean that you lose your drive, which does not mean that you lose your ambition. You will never lose that because this is just also a personality trait of being highly ambitious and wanting to do stuff, which is great. But like, do you do it from a place of Coping and surviving, obviously, unconsciously. Or do you do it from a place of alignment? Do you achieve and guard into the world and make shit happen out of a place of, yeah, I can only say alignment, basically, like being able to recover and sustainably perform as opposed to burning out or suffering or having to numb yourself, whatever means. You know what I mean? It's a little bit that. Paul Fattinger (32:48) And yeah, I just asked, and I think maybe to make it also real in a sense to share my experience with that when we started working together, I'd say I was quite activated and Mark's known me for a while. mean, I had the nickname Terminator for a reason, right? Because I was like, I was just terminating shit. It's like there was no, there was no, you know, yeah, full on. And, but it also... Marc Winter (33:08) Doh. Pure executioner. You would be in search of things to terminate. know, it's not just terminate. It's like, else could I go after? Paul Fattinger (33:15) Exactly, man. Exactly. I will always find something. And no, but this is also how my weekends looked, by the way. I couldn't sit still on the weekend. was like, what do we do? Like, what can I, you know, I need to be productive. I need to do something. It was terrible. And also here it goes. And that kind of way of doing then starts having a negative effect on your private life, on your family, on your relationships. And I know and we all know where it led to me. Also part of that is also the reason Why then I burned out and I achieved many things on the surface, but it didn't really make me happy because I was maybe running for them for the wrong reasons. And then I slowly started digging myself out of this. And when I met Johannes, I was on the way, but I hadn't fully discovered that kind of work and that relationship with my body and my nervous system and starting to learn how to actually feel that. And people have almost and we did very frequent sessions and people were asked me what are you talking about? And I was like we actually talk about nothing Like we talk about I sometimes even go pissing like let me just just fucking talk about something as an actual problem and this guy would just sit there look at me through a video screen actually and Told me to move my head around to look out the window to stretch sitting there. It's like motherfucker, you know But the funny thing is, and I learned it's called co-regulation, which is a great gift for, after a while and doing some exercises and whatever, you'll all have to find out. You kind of really start feeling how you feel different. And then he always asked me, so how are doing? And I said, I'm doing great. I'm doing well. And it's like, that's not a fucking feeling, man. It's like, yeah, but what do you mean? How does your body feel? It's like, what do you mean, how does my body feel? To the point that he sent me. Marc Winter (34:55) Hmm Paul Fattinger (35:08) an A4 sheet of vocabulary, I still have it somewhere here, of like words to use how to describe bodily feelings, like sensations. I don't know, it's gray bird, itches, it's like, but this is how disconnected I was personally from actually listening to what's going on there. And our bodies, our greatest door into where we actually are in the present. Marc Winter (35:21) Very cool. Very cool. Mmm. Paul Fattinger (35:35) And I wasn't able to actually read that fucking book, although it was in front of me like, bam. And by learning that, you know, that was a process that got me further, you know, along the road to be able to better regulate to myself or feel, to be honest to you all, because I'm not no yogi, right? I mean, I feel stressed very often, but I know it now. And I know when I feel, ⁓ now I would like a whiskey. You know what I mean? It kind of, it is almost like you have that, you have that Marc Winter (35:35) Hmm. Johannes Gaan Eisenburger (35:46) Mm. Paul Fattinger (36:05) gap in your brain that you actually realize what's going on and have an option to do something different. You know what I mean? It's like you don't just bam rush into your behavior. I mean, they turn off the light on you, You don't bam rush into the behavior, but you kind of get that split second of time to maybe do something else. And that's what really changed, you know, one of the things that really changed for me and that can practically change, I think, as a beautiful thing. Marc Winter (36:18) That's okay. Johannes Gaan Eisenburger (36:26) That's that. Marc Winter (36:34) So just hearing you tell that story, please go ahead. Johannes Gaan Eisenburger (36:34) It's, it's, it's beautifully said, like, can I just say something? What you just said that split second, right? Because in the end, what that work does and what my intention is to, to, to impart with you or with my clients is to, because like, you might've heard that the, the trigger and the response, there is a gap. Right. And the, less resilience we have, meaning the more distributed our nervous system is, the less capacity we have, the, the, the, smaller the window of tolerance we call it. the more reactive you are, the faster you snap, for example, the faster you overreact, you turn into compulsive behavior. So the goal is with these practices to widen the gap between trigger or stimulus and the response and to actually choose. And this is this is the ability. This is then the window of tolerance. And this is this is what we'll teach. So Paul, just quickly now. And I want to really nail this down. It's not about, you know, just running around like an enlightened yogi and then. Marc Winter (37:18) ⁓ That's interesting. Johannes Gaan Eisenburger (37:32) pretend many people then do that, then they become spiritual bypass, as we call it. But it's, it's, it's about being able to continue being that terminator that you are. And that I also experienced here. And I want to visit you here in Vienna, but being able now, when you say you stressed and you have this crazy week ahead of you now, and I'm like, I want you over time now, going forward with everything we're doing to have the tools to be able to more and more regulate so that you do not necessarily have to say I am so stressed. Now know. Now you know it. That's great. And you know a little bit how to but to actually really shift the baseline down further and you'll still be the doer. You still be the achiever. You still be the maja that obese. It's not going to change ever. But it's just like the reactivity and the stress patterns and all that stuff will just at some point, hopefully, ⁓ regulate. Paul Fattinger (38:23) Doesn't that sound nice? I'm all in, yeah, I'm all in. Marc Winter (38:27) There's something you, that's the pausing and making a choice, being very intentional about your next action and the self-awareness that comes with that is powerful. As is, this little example of this A4 sheet, which is, ⁓ well no, because when you equip people with the vocabulary of how they could feel, and you realize it's so much better than I'm feeling good, you know? It's a powerful thing because you're connecting your, reminded of, I guess, also the power of language, but when you're able to fully express and you're equipped with the words and connect to how you're feeling and thinking powerfully and with real intention, you make better choices. Johannes Gaan Eisenburger (39:16) Yeah. And I can tell you why that happens. If you want me to geek out a little bit on the brain stuff, like, yeah, essentially what we're doing there and why. So first of all, this, this language, I often say, this is, this whole work is like learning a new language. It's a somatic language, the language of the body. So as with any language test, you get vocabulary. Right. So, but what happens is the first part in this process that I always do is that we are installing, which we can call metacognition. like we're installing literally in your brain and in our observer. Marc Winter (39:20) Go for it. I love the brain stuff. Paul Fattinger (39:21) Good for it, man. Johannes Gaan Eisenburger (39:46) that starts to observe what is going on in your body, so called interoception, right? So as opposed to extra reception, I am aware now you can see if you look around in your room, I see the watch and the picture and the lamps and everything. But if I turn inwards, I'm like, okay, there's a tingling, I can feel my heartbeat, there's warmth, there's, all this stuff happening in my body, which is interoception. And what's actually happening is we're teaching this to people who are new on the journey, like what Paul experienced, is that the area more than neocortical specific area in the prefrontal cortex that is responsible for like naming things and describing things with a word. It describes something that comes from a different region from the brain that is responsible and is doing all these somatic experiences that triggers all of this. And then as you install that observer, which is literally like learning and for every client, it's the same. They get confused. They're like, what the fuck is this? I don't know. Get frustrated. And then at some point that that observer is there. And then you literally build new neural networks in your brain where you start to be able to not only observe the outside or be in your narratives and your stories in the past and in the future, but actually you start to sense what happens in your body. And once you start sensing what happens in your body, where are you? Now, here now, because the body can only be here now, like where else should it be? But the narratives in our stories is either future or past. And then we're in the head constantly. Marc Winter (41:11) No. Johannes Gaan Eisenburger (41:12) That's what happens really, like from a brain science perspective. Paul Fattinger (41:16) Yeah, and maybe just to round this off, in the end, don't think I just, you know, it's not just about learning the vocabulary, but what it does and why we actually never had to talk about, you know, things that were, you know, what is my current problem, you know, what is moving me, what we did, actually gave me the ability to solve those things on my own. And they actually, when you get into that state and when you come out of this, you have so much clarity all of a sudden that there's no doubt what you want to do or what needs to be done. Just do it. Johannes Gaan Eisenburger (41:34) Exactly. ⁓ Marc Winter (41:36) Mm. Johannes Gaan Eisenburger (41:43) Yes. Paul Fattinger (41:43) And I think that's kind of that's the real power of this. and yeah, again, I think it's it's very fucking powerful. Johannes Gaan Eisenburger (41:51) Yes. Yeah, it's pretty cool. This is you just described. This is acting out of presence instead of acting out of survival. That's what it is. Marc Winter (41:58) Right, right, right, exactly, makes sense. Can you take me through the experience of a journey? Johannes Gaan Eisenburger (42:07) What type of journey? Marc Winter (42:09) Well, like for example, that's a great point. Like thematically, like what you orchestrated last night. Like, I mean, you guys kind of hinted on it already. Yeah, I've referred to it a little bit. And so how that translates, because I'm obviously super curious. Johannes Gaan Eisenburger (42:16) what we did last night. Okay, yeah, sure. Paul Fattinger (42:18) Yeah. Yeah. Johannes Gaan Eisenburger (42:23) So what we did last night is a technology that I learned through a friend of mine that he founded ⁓ because he was suffering himself from the symptoms of neurodivergence, specifically being neuro-typical in the brain, which shows up like things that are then called schizophrenia or depression or ADHD or autism or all this stuff that ⁓ pharma psychiatry has a label for. But it has to do with this balance in the brain. And he was suffering from that and he didn't want to go down the medical route. And he's a deep diver and they found ways of how to manipulate the gas exchange in the body and build CO2 tolerance and by consciously through this specific technology that is then woven into a beautiful journey with music ⁓ and certain techniques of holding the breath over extended period of times at inhaling and exhaling, not breath work. It's definitely not like breath work. ⁓ You start to consciously approach states of anxiety and panic. This is where we want to go. Because like, if you hold your breath long enough, you're going to surely panic. And then very simply put, what happens is that you, as you are in the safe setting with music and with the whole preparation, go there. start to use certain things to regulate and confront those fears. Cause those fears that your mind is telling you. When you're not going to die when you hold your breath for a minute or two, like for long not. But the more fear and chaos and anxiety there is in your system, the crazier your mind will go and tell you, oh my God, this is crazy. This crazy guy's fucked up. What am I doing here? You know, this stuff, all the narratives. I surely had it when I started this practice and you learn over time to relax into it and to again, tone the vagus nerve, which is the 10th cranial nerve that comes out right here. And, uh, And over time, if you practice this regularly, you rewire your responses and your brain and your nervous system and your brain, your nervous system starts to learn self-regulation as an, there is a stressor, there's fear. And now I relax into it. It's a process, but it's very fast. And I can tell you the personal experience because I myself, obviously being slightly neurodivergent suffered from what they would call, know, whatever ADHD on a certain spectrum and also depressive tendencies, but I wasn't able to focus. I was simply not able to focus on one thing, specifically stuff I didn't like, like numbers and finances and all this stuff for some time. Not even like to sit down and do a budget, you know, forget doing this for an hour. I just couldn't. So I started to take Ritalin when a friend of mine gave it to me. was like, my God, this stuff is amazing. I felt like limitless that movie, but it's not good because it's a fucking amphetamine. Then I had to smoke, you know, to come down. ⁓ This is all gone, you know? Marc Winter (44:56) Mm. Yeah, yeah. Johannes Gaan Eisenburger (45:18) This is all gone. like, I'm just like, feel like so focused when I need it for hours and hours if necessary, taking the breaks. And this is the sustainable performance that I talk about. This is just amazing, you know, to do that without having to sit at a therapist's couch and talk about my problems, which there is a place for that, but this is not necessarily what we teach. Marc Winter (45:33) Hmm. Paul Fattinger (45:42) Just to make it a little bit more real again, we sat there on nets on the floor, sat on our asses and it was dark and it was really nice and there was some smoky stuff going on, like scents and stuff and it was really beautiful and incense, thank you. No, no, no, no. Maybe a little boost with different things, but nothing major just to enhance the experience. Marc Winter (45:59) mean, incense, you guys weren't getting stoned. Okay, okay. Johannes Gaan Eisenburger (46:02) this. Marc Winter (46:09) Well, can you clarify? Yeah, what things were you based on? Paul Fattinger (46:11) Yeah, nicotine or caffeine or something. nothing crazy. And then there is music that really is very important. obviously, know, Johannes kind of giving us the when to breathe in and out and what to do when explaining. And that's kind of what it is. And time flew like this. And everyone was like stunned. We started at five and it took a while until we actually sat down and started. But all of a sudden was nine thirty by the time we were done. Marc Winter (46:14) Okay Paul Fattinger (46:39) And you lie down and you feel that and so on. it's quite an intense experience and it doesn't feel a lot different like when you actually do take mushrooms or something in a funny way, although you don't, right? Or even just a little micro dose of that. But this whole breathing thing in CO2, whatever the fuck it is that is going on, really does something. Johannes Gaan Eisenburger (47:03) Yeah, it's really wild. Yeah. Marc Winter (47:03) Wow. Cool. Paul Fattinger (47:06) Listen, Mike, I have a question to you because now we talked a lot and also kind of looking at the time I was thinking, so for you listening to this and we've talked about this, I think you're one of the very few people I've ever known that actually, you know, I think from somehow from a young age has learned to regulate himself. No, I think you really did. And that's exactly kind of my point, right? Because I think, you know, lately with two small kids, you know, everything is going on at work, which is a lot. Marc Winter (47:23) I'm not feeling so regulated today, but go ahead. Johannes Gaan Eisenburger (47:24) Mm-hmm. Paul Fattinger (47:35) I mean, I've also seen you, I don't think I've ever seen you that stressed in fact, ever since I've known you. And this is not a criticism in fact, this is an observation. ⁓ So when you hear all of this, what's kind of like, what are the things that come to your mind? Marc Winter (47:40) Hmm. Hmm. No. Yeah, I've been feeling it myself. Well, I think I've been speaking to a lot of what's been resonating. to me, I The gift of being self-aware, I think, of what you're feeling, of what's in your control versus what's out, like this idea of deregulating yourself or regulating yourself in your nervous system to me really resonates a lot. And I am annoyed by how, no, it's just a truth that really annoys me. that how connected my body is to my brain. It's just like, wish. I mean, it is. It's just, it's like, you know, ⁓ and I, so, but I think that's just the truth that then you need to address full on, you know, ⁓ and lean into and you're all better for it. So that's a lot of what I'm taking away from this conversation. In addition to, I think, Paul Fattinger (48:31) Yeah Marc Winter (48:56) What the meaning idea is really interesting. I know those were my words, but I think hearing you talk, Johannes, about clearly you deal with a lot of ⁓ successful individuals who, know, the themes are queer. You know, you have ⁓ high pressure jobs. like, no doubt you see the patterns, right? But then I think you built a practice around that, right? ⁓ To help them. Johannes Gaan Eisenburger (49:19) Yeah. Marc Winter (49:24) pause, greater intention, really understand what matters and connect your body to your brain more intentionally to me really powerful. That's kind of what I'm thinking. I'm not just playing it back. I'm wondering how to best do it. And yeah, it is. Wow. Do I get an A? ⁓ Paul Fattinger (49:37) Yeah. Nice. It's a nice wrap up. Johannes Gaan Eisenburger (49:41) Hmm. Paul Fattinger (49:44) I think one thing you get, maybe, but the one thing I kind of want to leave at the end because it's the sentence that really helped, I wouldn't say the most, but really helped me a lot was what, you mentioned it already Johannes, is it's okay to be wherever you are as long as you know where you are. Because it also invites a feeling of acceptance into the whole thing and not judgment. Yeah. Marc Winter (50:06) Wait, is that what you said? It's funny, Johannes Gaan Eisenburger (50:06) Hmm Marc Winter (50:09) I heard you say it's okay to be where, not to know where you're going or whatever, as long as you know what you are. Paul Fattinger (50:16) No, it's okay. It's okay to be where you are, right? Wherever you are, if you're agitated, stressed or not regulated, unregulated, as long as you, you know, as you said, you know, your prefrontal cortex, somehow the observer is still on and tells you, hey, this is what's going on right now. And, and I think, and that's kind of, to me was where, and where on that, on that kind of like, you know, balance or imbalance of things. And to me, that's a, yeah, it's a great mantra almost, right? ⁓ Marc Winter (50:19) okay. Johannes Gaan Eisenburger (50:23) Exactly. Marc Winter (50:30) Got it, got it. I heard what you are, but it's where you are. Got it, ⁓ got it. Johannes Gaan Eisenburger (50:30) Yeah. Where you are, yeah. Marc Winter (50:42) they're pretty powerful. yeah, it's true. Paul Fattinger (50:44) especially Johannes Gaan Eisenburger (50:45) Superb Paul Fattinger (50:45) when Johannes Gaan Eisenburger (50:45) one, yeah. Paul Fattinger (50:45) you start feeling competitive or performative about this journey as well and, no, I'm not present at all and I'm such an idiot and I need to do this more and that more. I mean, that's probably just me, but I don't think so actually. think there's lots of people. Talking about idiots, ⁓ this is a great segue here. Listen to this, what a fucking pro. ⁓ You might not notice, Johannes, yet and it might be because I intentionally didn't tell you. Johannes Gaan Eisenburger (50:53) you No, I remember having it. Marc Winter (51:01) my god, my god ⁓ Johannes Gaan Eisenburger (51:03) Talk about yourself to us. Paul Fattinger (51:12) There is a segment at the end of this podcast where Mark and I talk about the idiots and terminators of the week for us. You will see. We'll just go ahead and then you can figure out if you have something to share as well. So Mark, my friend, what's your idiot of the week? What terminator? You can start with whatever you want. Johannes Gaan Eisenburger (51:22) What does that mean? Marc Winter (51:33) So I went out to, ⁓ I'm gonna choose something from last night. So I went out to the guys night, Predictably Johannes, as you mentioned, involved ⁓ lots of steak and wine. And we went to like a steakhouse. And I feel like, you know, you kind of know what you're getting into with steakhouses, you just do, right? You know, it's like, hopefully, I don't know if you've been to one recently. Yeah, but like, supposedly expertly prepared steaks and. Paul Fattinger (51:55) Stakes? Marc Winter (52:00) Hopefully some decent sides, right, that come through, right? And then it should feel clubby, because you have to deal on atmosphere. This place we were going to, Brooklyn, it's amazing to me how they failed at the sides. It's just, I felt like I was, like, everything was terrible. I had a martini and a few glasses of wine, and the steaks were good, but as soon as it was like, fried. hush puppies, potatoes with like rice ball. Just none of it made, it looked like a McDonald's menu basically, the kiddie menu. And I was like, I turned to the waitress, I was like, it's like, do you guys have anything like, like not on the kids menu that you can bring us for sides? She didn't like that. But I think, the point is this place was not good. And on top of it, I feel like the recipe for steak houses are so simple. Paul Fattinger (52:41) And? No. Marc Winter (52:55) Like this is an experience you need to give to make people feel like they're having a special treat, clubby, you want to feel great. And if you don't deliver on the sides of something else beyond a stake, I just find it terrible. Because these are all kind of high margin scams anyway, you know? And so that's why you have so many of them. Yeah, big time. Paul Fattinger (53:11) They are. Fair enough. Okay. That's a legitimate idiot of the week. have one too. You know what mine is? Is ⁓ Facebook and Metta. You know, everything. Because now that I've started, you know, trying to promote our podcast on Instagram and I'm getting myself into this. So there's kind of like the easy version of it. I'm learning all of this, guys. So everyone who's listening, thinks I'm a complete idiot at this is 100 % right. I am. But I'm sharing with you my journey. Johannes Gaan Eisenburger (53:14) Mmm. Marc Winter (53:17) Yeah. What? Paul Fattinger (53:40) So one easy thing is actually that you hit boost my reel on Instagram. It's very simple. Then you can select a few things and audience and stuff. It actually works. And then you read somewhere, but you can get better results if you do it properly. And you go into the meta ad manager for which you have to set up a Facebook account again, which I have intentionally deleted seven years ago. So I had to set this fucker up again. Then you connect it. Then you get into an interface that is so complicated. Then I said with, you know, whatever whenever GPT open. on the side asking them to lead me through how I set up an Instagram ad and then, and then they go through it and it sounds very logical. You read the GPT and you look at the page is like, it doesn't make any sense. And I really had this screen just like, what do I do here? It was the most unintuitive. And this is like one of the max seven IT mega powerhouses that obviously only benefit from their monopoly because Marc Winter (54:13) Ha ha ha ha. Yes. Yes. Paul Fattinger (54:36) The customer experience and customer journey of this is appalling to say the least. It's insane that it works. It's insane. And I'm not a complete idiot at things like this, I think. So yeah, that sucks. So that was my idiot. Johannes, what do you think? You have anything to add? Any ideas? Marc Winter (54:42) You know, sound like it's, well, there you go. pretty good, pretty good. Johannes Gaan Eisenburger (54:53) and idiots wow i mean my last week was very honest no no no wait i've got one but i was the idiot yeah because like i ⁓ Marc Winter (54:54) Seems to balance for that. ⁓ good. Paul Fattinger (55:02) This is cheap, man. I'm always the idiot. That's easy. Like, I'm the idiot every week of the... every day of the year. Like... It's your first time. mean, it's okay. Johannes Gaan Eisenburger (55:12) I mean, obviously I could say, look, I'm staying at Paul's and it's quite easy to have my idiot for the week, but it makes you the idiot again. Marc Winter (55:19) Ha Paul Fattinger (55:20) Thank you, yeah, but it would also make you sleep on the street maybe, yeah. So that's a bit risky. Okay, fair enough. We give you a pass. We do the positive stuff. We do the Terminator of Week because you are my Terminator of the Week because I think you delivered a beautiful ⁓ journey and experience to obviously me, but all the other people that were there and it was really, really, really nice. So I think that's great and what you're doing is... Johannes Gaan Eisenburger (55:28) I know, just did a stupid thing. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Paul Fattinger (55:49) is really needed and I hope many more people will get to benefit from this. So absolute terminator of the week. See you, Hannes. Johannes Gaan Eisenburger (55:59) take it. Thank you. Marc Winter (56:01) Mine is, that's a good one. Mine is, so after we left this restaurant, we went upstairs to this Speakeasy bar. And as annoyed as I was with the restaurant, no, it's good. As annoyed as I was with the restaurant, imagine like you're in a shitty mood, like there's no way, like just annoyed. And you go into this bar and it completely transforms you. was, as bad as the place was downstairs, that bar was great. Paul Fattinger (56:10) Yours is very skewed today, but I like it. ⁓ Marc Winter (56:29) And it was great because it was a tiki bar that was like a mermaid kind of theme. was like Caribbean kind of thing. I had no idea what was going on, but it was full on, they didn't even just dip their toe in, they dove into that. I don't know how much this thing cost, it was amazing. And not even that, there's the best part. So we're there, now if the vibes change we're happy. then at least four... Sailors walk in like admirals like like I don't know how they found a bar like US military Like like Navy white white with the thing in there, right with girls in tow, right? Like taking them all out for a night out God knows I think you know, I don't want to make any assumptions here, but you could make them right and and Everyone was just like vibe. I was like these guys are baller and they were just Ordering drink after drink as like pure admirables in this tiki bar that looked like Johannes Gaan Eisenburger (56:59) No way. Paul Fattinger (57:00) Like in white, like properly, like Navy shit. Marc Winter (57:24) Pirates of the Caribbean, you know? And I was thinking, I was like, this is A, why I love New York. It'd be ⁓ cheers to those admirals. They deserve it, because they terminated something that week ⁓ last night, for sure. Yeah. Paul Fattinger (57:33) You But for an admiral to go in a mermaid-themed bar with some girls is actually, that is, that's awesome. Johannes Gaan Eisenburger (57:44) That's pretty cool. I have an idea for if ever we come to visit you in New York, which I think we should do, we'll dress up as admirals and we go to that bar. Marc Winter (57:45) Perfect, yeah. Yes. That's a great idea. Actually, that's a great thing to do in general for each themed bar. You actually dress up as the theme. That's a good idea. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You could dress up as James Bond for the Martini bar. Anyway. Paul Fattinger (57:56) That's a great idea. That is a great idea. Johannes Gaan Eisenburger (57:59) Left to the left. Paul Fattinger (58:06) That is fantastic. Let's please not forget this. while it's on record. Any Terminator of the Week? Johannes, were you inspired by any of our stories for Terminator of the Week? Anything that really inspired you that you saw? Johannes Gaan Eisenburger (58:17) I have to say my last week was the most uneventful week. was just working and working out. That was all that happened. There was nothing else. So I could make something up, but I don't think that's the point. So my last week, my last week was just that. There was nothing. Paul Fattinger (58:28) No, it's not. That's fine. That's great too. It's good to be, you know, wherever you are, you know where you are in that sense. Marc Winter (58:42) All right, well it's wonderful to meet you. Thanks for coming on. What a great first guest. Paul Fattinger (58:43) Guys, it's been a pleasure. Johannes Gaan Eisenburger (58:46) Thank you guys for having me. Awesome. Yeah, we'll do it again. Paul Fattinger (58:48) Yeah, amazing. Guys, thank you. Have a great evening.