Never Let the Old Man In | Ep 32

Marc (00:12) Welcome to guys like us. If you're new here, this is the space for questions to start getting louder in midlife, the ones that move the needle from doing just well to actually living the good life. We deconstruct stories that shaped us from leadership and legacy to the deep friendships and late nights that continue to move us. No surface level talk here, just some lightly decanted reflections on existential questions and champagne problems. Paul (00:39) ⁓ hell no. Marc (00:39) And in today's episode, we are gonna, this is gonna be a fun one, I think, because it's gonna, I'm gonna call it, Keeping the Old Man Out. So. Paul (00:48) ⁓ nice, keeping the old man out. How's that? Okay. Well, that's a big one. Yeah. Marc (00:50) Yeah, We'll see how it's going. I'm Mark, ⁓ joining you from ⁓ my fabulous wine cellar in New York City. Hey, how are you? And I'm joined by Paul. Paul, where are you today? Paul (01:03) Mark I am back in Vienna after a busy week, after a busy week, still recovering, but yeah, back in Vienna. Marc (01:11) Okay. how was your week? Tell me about that. Yeah, exactly. Paul (01:19) I mean, you know, last time we checked in, was on the way to Paris where we met and basically ⁓ didn't record a single episode. Didn't create any content. ⁓ And then one thing we tried, let's see if we can actually use that because that was late at night. Marc (01:24) Yeah. Well. Yeah, exactly. I'm really scared to listen to that again. It's funny. Paul (01:44) Yeah, I bet you I'm gonna get I'm gonna I'm gonna actually if I have the time gonna send you the best offs of you, especially if the recording we aborted ⁓ and then I got home and and then I skiing for a couple of days and it was beautiful but it was not less intense than Paris was. So yeah, I'm on my second day of recovery and I'm doing better. Marc (01:55) ⁓ my God. Okay. Got it. Yeah, God, I'm on my. Yeah, dude, it was a. It was a so I was in Europe for the week for for for business, trying to get my my business off the ground and testing it over there. And so obviously we had a wonderful few days in Paris and then that was in Berlin for ⁓ four days almost. So that was that tested both the philosophy of my business model and. Paul (02:16) How about yourself, I mean, you have a pretty... Marc (02:41) my body in equal measure, so it was a lot of fun. Paul (02:44) What did withstand the pressure in a better way, your body or your business model? Marc (02:54) That's true. I would say my business model. So what I was thinking about. Yeah, it's good. Paul (02:57) That's actually, that's good. mean, it's a bit useless when your business model still stands and you're dead, but in principle, as long as you survive, that's a good thing. Marc (03:07) Yeah, well, you know, it's funny, part of the genesis for this episode, I was thinking ⁓ on the flight back as we were go as I was crossing somewhere over the Atlantic and I was thinking to myself, know, how is it Mark that you are like you could have your week could have been so many different things. It could have been relaxing. You could have just done nothing, right? Done a few weeks and stayed home. And yet you ⁓ Rose to challenge yourself to be, I don't know, filled not just with loads of meetings, but see all your friends, do all the things that you've loved to do with your friends for, you know, since 20 years, that kind of thing. And let the energy and the joy kind of flow through you. And so that was a bit of the nature for this episode. And yet it also hits some real hard truths that I thought would be kind of interesting to explore with you together. Paul (04:00) But for context, for our listeners, you arrived in Paris on Sunday night, you spent three nights there and then you left for Berlin and spent another few nights there with friends and business obviously and then you flew home on Sunday. Okay, that sounds intense. So after this now, also coming from a week in a different time zone and a long flight, what are you drinking tonight? Marc (04:07) Yeah. Berlin. Yeah, four nights there. Yeah. Yeah. I was about to go there thinking, well, this is my favorite non-alcoholic beer, the athletic. You know, I just, yeah, well, I like to be consistent sometimes. Yeah. And you? Paul (04:29) Again, and we've had it before. No, it's beautiful. I'm having again, I'm having a cup of tea. is, it is, I think it is the tea is called, I think it's called Gute Verdaung, which is ⁓ good digestion. So that's, that's my tea. Yeah. Marc (04:44) For like. All right. Good. OK. We're like two prize fighters who've been knocked out, you know, on the side. So it's kind of funny. And. Good. Paul (04:59) Hey, Mark, just Marc (05:01) So listen, I thought I would start off by reading some text messages that I got from some of my friends, by the way, who are all over 40 over the weekend. One was basically, hey, I'm pretty destroyed. Thank you so much. ⁓ That was worth it, like I was in high school again. Paul (05:00) Yeah. Marc (05:17) Then I heard another friend, Fred, saying, I think I entered the ninth dimension with you. That was crazy. That was a lot of fun. Another one was I've been sick for two days, but I don't think this was related to me. They were just up in nature, I almost pooped my pants while skiing. Paul (05:40) Yeah, mean, can't happen, you know? Marc (05:41) Yeah, so basically, there's a whole circle of friends that were out doing stuff, and I don't think it was just partying, they were just trying to be around. Look, I did some research of this, so key stats for us, and this shouldn't just be about aging, but this is also about living really ⁓ creatively, ambitiously, vivaciously, and just to throw out some... few stats against us. So did you know that we have a bit of a sleep architecture collapse that deep sleep drops up to 50 % in your 40s? Paul (06:21) Really? Marc (06:22) Yeah, that's right. Did you know that? And your RAM drops off significantly as well. Paul (06:24) Wow. No. Huh, yeah, that hurts, yeah. Marc (06:32) This one I think, yeah. Paul (06:34) No, but I I kind of knew it. I think you produce also less melatonin. That's why you should also supplement it. So it's harder for us to fall asleep. That's why I take it every night. But yeah. Very little though. It's just one milligram and not 10. That's in your average. And your average US portion size of melatonin supplement is totally zones you out. Yeah. So, but anyways, yeah. Marc (06:43) Do you take melatonin every night? Wow, I didn't know that. Okay. It's everything. ⁓ As everything in the US, when you take a pill you're like, wait a second, that's legal? Yeah, it's like what? Okay, next one of course, the second thing against this we know, lose three to five percent of your muscle mass per decade after 30. I think that's why we're always, exactly. And then I think it's the amount of, let's call it the risk aversion. So the amount of... ⁓ Paul (07:07) Really? Yeah, we talked about that with Alty. Marc (07:29) the men in their 40s and 50s account for a massive spike in emergency room visits for torn Achilles tendons and tears for the weekend warrior sports. So, you I thought that was all just from a physical kind of perspective, you know? And then I think, you know, in the mindset piece, and we talked about this a little bit, like ⁓ how people have been shifting from buying Corvettes in their midlife crisis or pick your version of that, you know, and to now investing in kind of longevity plays, you know, like the cold plunge pool and this kind of thing. Paul (08:02) Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's true. Marc (08:08) But I thought I would start, so after just laying the ground for context, is Paul, when I say keeping the old man out, what does that mean to you? Paul (08:19) Well, let's first of all give ⁓ credit to who created this duo, And ⁓ the funny thing is we both obviously have a very similar Instagram feed by now, which is great because I think that's where we both saw it, right? And there's a snippet of an interview, I think it was in the Daily Show, think, Morgan Freeman. And he was asked about the piece of advice that he got from Clint Eastwood about aging. Marc (08:25) Yeah, that's true. ⁓ Yeah. Paul (08:46) I mean, mind you that Morgan Freeman is 88, right? And Clint Eastwood has passed 90 something, four or five, I don't know. Anyways, and he said, I mean, that would be amazing to get his original voice now. Never let the old man in. Marc (09:01) Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Paul (09:03) And that's awesome. so I to this and I saw this. And as a few days later or moments later, almost, I was walking up a mountain on skis and I really tried to keep my bearings together. I was actually thinking of that sentence. tell you. I was like, Paul, don't let the old man in. Don't let the old man in. So it was so funny when you left me this voice this morning where you quoted this because it was literally with me the whole weekend. Marc (09:32) Ha ha Really? Okay, so our timing is perfect. Paul (09:43) Yeah, our timing is perfect. So I'm prepared. I'm actually prepared because I think it is, and it happens to me quite a lot, think I do it a lot, is to say, man, I can't do this anymore, I'm too old for this shit. All my back hurts again, of course that's age. kind of, to me, it's, you what means to me, is talking badly about yourself because of your age. Or in my... Marc (09:51) Yeah, exactly. Mmm. Yeah. Paul (10:11) talking badly about myself because of my age and attributing some things that hurt or don't work that well anymore or not like they used to be to age. And that's what I connect to letting the old man in. What about yourself? Marc (10:28) So I take a, I'd say that definition is probably 20 % of my definition. I think 80 % of it is ⁓ the resting on your laurels like you've retired kind of thing. it is someone who wants to stay cozy at bed, smoke a pipe, which is awesome sometimes, not go out, like you're already sort of. Paul (10:35) OK. Huh. Marc (10:58) given up on life in some way, or in retirement mode. okay, ⁓ given up on life might be a little bit traumatic, you're in the, well, you're in the twilight of your life, let's put it that way, for many, and you're just more in reflection mode, and can't be bothered. That's where. Paul (11:06) I would say because I mean, just a different stage of life. I mean, I think it's interesting, right? Because I mean, in a way, don't we give this, the old man, a negative connotation there, by the whole thing? Because, I mean, isn't the old man, does the old man also have attributes that are very positive? Like the old man is wise, the old man is usually kinder, right? You say you, this is, know, kindness is a sign of age and in mildness. So, I mean... Marc (11:42) Yeah. Paul (11:49) Let's take a few steps back here on the society's damning of old people. Marc (11:56) Okay, but hold on. I don't think that's actually what that quote is about. So I think that quote is not about, know, senior, like, trashing senior people. Right, no. I think what he's trying to say, think, don't let, I mean, this is in response to, hey, how do you keep making shit at 92 or whatever it was to come to East when he's like, don't let the old man in, which means that, you know, as he is aging, Paul (12:04) Age shaming. Marc (12:20) and he's facing the realities. That's how I interpreted it, right? He's like defying that to stay hungry, to stay creative, to feel like he's ready to still make a mark. And I think that's an interesting mindset to draw upon. Paul (12:35) And I think what you said before, that giving up on life is not wrong, actually, and to understand old in this context as that. Because old by itself is not a bad thing, right? But the old man and what you can negatively attribute to maybe what you can imagine as an old man is actually, and that's why I think you connected it to retirement, like, know, whatever. ⁓ Marc (12:42) Hmm. No. Yeah. Paul (13:03) I'm letting go. What am I still here for? You know, my kids are old and never see my grandkids. I have no job anymore. It is kind of giving up on life, which is then when you start aging really quickly and usually also dying because you have no purpose in life. I know from, from what you read. No, but it's true because retirements by itself, I don't think has to be a negative thing. It can be a phase of your life where, you know, to be honest, I don't think it's, it's not my life goal to work. Marc (13:15) Hahaha! Paul (13:29) In a sense or do the same thing that I'm doing now. mean, if I, if I did movies now, do I have to do movies for another 50 years? Like Clint Eastwood, if it's my passion, maybe, but maybe my retirement also means I can do something else and I can start a new thing in my life. Right. So. Marc (13:42) Well, what that just means is that you're doing something else, right? And I think that's, you're doing something. Paul (13:46) But you can also mow your lawn and make the most perfect lawn in the world and that's not giving up on life, it's a different thing. So I don't think that productivity should be a measure of not being old or old. Because it's putting the same productivity filter in everything that doing things and creating things is good and not doing things is bad. And I don't think that's right. Marc (13:52) It's true. I buy that. I, no, no, no, no, I agree. No, I agree. I don't, actually, I don't think that's what we're saying. I mean, I think we're agreeing that... that success isn't being productive, let's put it this way in life, or living isn't just being productive, that might be it, maybe that's the right way of putting it, right? I think it's actually, it's much more dynamic than that. But I think ⁓ the vibrancy of being alive, right? And the vibrancy of, or the hunger to push yourself to enjoy your time on this planet, right? And I think that to me, is what tends to fade as people age a little bit. ⁓ And some of that is due to the real physical, the physical limitations is really hard and some of it is just they get tired. It's a mental thing. And that to me is what actually I wanted to explore. What's the physical stuff? Because shit like that happens to you. We already talked about how you have to stay fit and prepare yourself. ⁓ It's the mental thing that really intrigues me. Paul (14:47) Yeah, I think age very often is used... Yeah, and Of course. And I think there's, yeah, I hear, and I was just trying to be a little bit getting a definition of this because I don't want us to pigeonhole something in one direction. What I associate with it, know, the negative sides of being old is to kind of accept what society broadly expects from you when you're old, which is kind of get out of the way and stop doing things because you're old. And then... Marc (15:16) Yep. Totally. Hmm. Mm. Paul (15:34) you consequently using your age as an excuse not to do things anymore, although you probably would be very much able to do so. And to me, that is letting the old man in. That's kind of my definition. And yeah, that's where I stand. you asked me what I think about this. This was a very long statement on that. Marc (15:39) Mmm. Mm. Mm. No, it's important. Well, okay, so let me ask you this. Maybe this episode will be us defining this, but actually I think it is kind of interesting. Do you have people in your friend's circle who just feel older? They've accepted, they've stopped, they've gone from fifth gear on enjoying life to use a car metaphor and shifting down to like two or three. Have you not experienced that in your circle? Paul (16:23) Well, I've experienced, I think it's very interesting because kind of like when you cross ⁓ the landmark of the 40th, I think that's when I always say that kind of the gap opens, right? While in your 30s, you don't really also see it and feel it. But then I think especially in your mid 40s, there are some guys, especially, and I'm talking mainly about guys that... Marc (16:36) Yeah. Paul (16:47) still look like they would be in their 30s and then beginning 40s are fit and doing stuff and that nothing has changed, right? That could also be negative, by the way. That's why I think, and if you want. And then there's others that to me look like 55 and like, what the fuck has happened? And I mean that in a negative way. ⁓ And I wouldn't say friends now, but people I know. Just to put this in context. And again, I'm a little bit... Marc (16:53) Mm-hmm. Yeah. All your friends are beautiful and fit. Paul (17:15) I'm not with you in that switching gears from fifth to fourth, because maybe I was in sixth or seventh or eighth gear for most of the past 20 years of my life. And I don't think I am right now or in a different way. I'm, I think it's one of the best decisions was ever, you know, done and make it in my life, you know. Marc (17:35) Yeah, okay. But I think we're conflating creativity as a gear level versus just, fucking hell, maybe I did it. I have to stop. Well, let me share, okay. No, that's fine. But let me share, I guess, a little bit what I'm experiencing. This thing about the gap in the 40s, the widening, to me feels really true. It's also a philosophy of living that I've seen kind of interesting. Paul (17:42) By the you just did again. Yeah. Maybe you didn't misunderstand you, but. Yeah. Marc (18:04) Like where I see more some of my friends family like choose the easier thing right versus Like with a shorter term payoff versus the harder thing maybe with like a longer term, you know payoff, right? And so it could be like where it is that you choose to vacation, right? Like like something, you could you could go down to like the Jersey Shore, right or a hop on a plane and goes a place You've never been to before but it's a little bit harder you have kids but the payoff is much higher making an upright simple example that kind of thing Paul (18:16) Mm. Marc (18:31) It could also just be in terms of ⁓ what to do on a Friday or Saturday night. I I friends who were out the entire time in my 30s. now this time, it's like getting them out is a win that you cannot, I can't even describe what it feels like to see them. It's like, you've left the couch. Paul (18:53) And when you ask them why, what do they tell you? Marc (18:56) They're like, I just don't feel like it anymore. They're like, I did that in my 30s. And I'm not saying we're going out to clubs and stuff like that. I'm like, let's go to a comedy show or a blues club, guys. Something that feels fun versus just whatever, like a dinner party at home, which is seems to be how people measure themselves. And I just find that really interesting. That's an increasing, I would say 20 % of my friend circle has actually kind of taken that lifestyle along. And I still enjoy talking to them, it's not that they become less intelligent, but you feel like, huh, there's something that you've curbed about, the way you're enjoying life that's interesting, or the way that ⁓ you're putting yourself in a box that feels like a little too early to do so. Paul (19:44) Yeah, but you're also judging the box. Marc (19:46) Is that a thing? I am judging the box by the way, fully. Paul (19:50) Yeah, mean, you know, there could be people who never liked going out also in their twenties and things and preferences change, right? I mean, people might like this now and then, you know, and then don't like it anymore. mean, I don't like and I don't particularly love. I wouldn't go in a club once a week or three times a month now. I mean, I'd rather shoot myself in the head. It's too loud. It stinks. The drinks are shit. And I had to have a headache the next morning. Marc (20:11) Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course not. Hahaha! Yeah. Paul (20:19) That's Marc (20:19) Well, no, but that has a different iteration, right? I mean, like, it's the same energy. It's just placed somewhere else, right? I think what I'm talking about is that it's not that I expect you to do the same thing that you did in your 20s. You know, let's go get three martinis on a Tuesday. That's not possible. It's also stupid, But there's something about that vibrancy and that energy, right, about exploring or having great, great conversations somewhere in a cafe, whatever, et cetera, that feels... Paul (20:33) Just face it, that's not possible also. Yeah, yeah. ⁓ Marc (20:47) like a social power and an intellectual and or a cultural power that gets that I feel like shouldn't change, know, should be just placed in a different vessel. You know what I mean? Paul (20:55) Yeah, think I guess I'm kind of, what I'm struggling with as we speak is to link it to certain behaviors or not behaviors and outcomes actually of going out versus dinner party ⁓ or going to Jersey Shore versus, I don't know, Brazil. But I think what's the underlying thing there is, ⁓ is there still curiosity? Is there still... Marc (21:05) Mm. Paul (21:22) eagerness to learn, to develop all of the things which we also know kind of we need to stay young in our head, like also physiologically, right? I mean, that's what makes our brain reconnect and do these things and actually not have any, you know, neurogeo... whatever this word is about brain diseases, you can get neurodegenerative diseases, I think. Marc (21:33) Totally. New jerk. yeah. Okay. Excellent, by the way. Well done. A+. Paul (21:51) That's the last drinks of Saturday. I'm still having an effect on my ability to speak and pronounce. So I think, know, let's try to define what are the underlying qualities that keep us young, you know, in... Marc (21:54) I'm sorry. I love it. Maybe this is where it is. I think it's curiosity. I think it's play. Absolute play. think it's ⁓ some social lubricant. There's something about community. Maybe it's that. ⁓ Curiosity, play, community. Paul (22:13) 100%. 100 % too, yeah. Marc (22:36) I want to say making, but maybe that's not for everyone. Like there's something about like, ⁓ whether it's your, you know, lawn experiment, like, hey, we made a lawn or we built something. There's something about ⁓ creating that I feel, or even a meal that feels really kind of important, you know, that gets you going. And I would argue probably curiosity is most important. ⁓ Paul (22:53) Yes. Marc (23:04) in community, think those four feel kind of right to me. Is there anything you would add? Paul (23:10) No, I love those. I love the creating one. I mean, yeah, I hear you. I think because if you think of, again, negative examples of of old people that you just said is people that are usually kind of feel lonely. They're not interested in things. They don't do anything. Right. So so that's all the things you just mentioned on the negative side. Marc (23:25) Yeah. Okay, well let's actually go through this in a sec. This will be fun actually. Okay, so curiosity. Paul (23:37) Yeah. Mm. Marc (23:42) Maybe, do you have, ⁓ I mean, I think we've all seen when people stop being curious, right? As a matter of fact, think, without getting into many of the world's ills are due to lack of curiosity ⁓ about each other or about going deeper on a thing. But, ⁓ you know, when you rest on your world, you're like, feel like I've known enough. Done. Like, that to me is a pretty queer. I like my... Music as I've always heard it, like this as I've always done it, like, I don't need to know of a new thing. Yep, okay. Paul (24:16) Yeah. Yeah. think it's a curiosity is, is, is maybe there's two things there. One is the active, you know, AI is coming and I'm sitting down like I am doing right now. think I'm trying to understand this. This is happening in the world. I'm trying to understand. I want to learn something new. I mean, my dad now is learning bridge in 72 and that's attributed to old people, but he's also like, Marc (24:35) Right? Right. Paul (24:42) But it's super complicated. There is no way you ever learn every rule of this game because it's so complicated. So he studies this thing like he's at university. He's nuts. He goes there three times a week and he's on this shit. And he's always been good at playing cards and he's on this. So that's to me his curiosity. The other part is to me ⁓ the ability to change and adapt to things that happen to us that we can't influence. know, societal shifts, technology shifts. Are you able to... Marc (24:47) Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Mmm. Paul (25:11) also embrace those. And probably has nothing to do with curiosity in a sense. mean, it's easier when you're curious to adapt, I think. But I think changing and being open to change is also something, maybe is another one of the attributes we haven't mentioned yet. Marc (25:27) It is, but it's a good one actually to stay resilient or fluid to change. I agree with that. Yeah, yeah. Okay, well, what about play? So I mean, play is when people just stop having fun, or like turn off the fun engine. Paul (25:32) Yeah, yeah. in whatever shape or form. Yes. No, no, no, I mean that because I think the ways you are having fun can change. But that's why I don't think the symptom and how it is, is the gauge of that. are you actually having fun? Are you actually doing things that tickle your senses, that get you maybe out of the comfort zone, that get you, you know, all these things, but they can be very different. You can go to an ice white shot party. That's a, you that you haven't done before. mean, that's... Marc (26:02) Yeah, yeah. Yeah, or people who, no, mean, not that, also, come on, you also have people who, it's funny, is this viral, I think dating, I'm gonna take it little out of context, but a meme that went around about a guy was asking a girl out, they're planning a date, and she's like, okay, but just so you know, I have to leave at 9.30, right? And he canceled the date immediately. It's like, Well, you're clearly not opening yourself up to fun. Like any fun. Yeah, it doesn't mean like a sex thing, but it was just like, yeah, that's right, that's fair. Paul (26:36) Exactly, yeah, yeah, no, I mean, is clear, that is a bit, but that's the inflexibility of not being open to change, right? I mean, I guess flexibility, fluidity, as you mentioned it before, to me is a big part of this. Marc (26:48) Yeah, I agree with that. That's fun. Okay. Paul (26:50) And, it's, know, but let's maybe if we want to take it back to what you said in the beginning, I was surprised when you said my definition of being old is only 20 % of yours. I had never thought of the other 80 % you talked about that never occurred to me because in, in, my mind, and I guess maybe that's maybe I'm young at that. I'm always curious. I always want to learn. I don't want to do certain things I did in the past in terms of having to produce certain things, but Marc (27:03) Mm. Paul (27:18) I want to produce and create on my own terms much more now than I did in the past. And the only things that I attribute to oldness ⁓ is bodily dysfunctions that I'm not used to. And I let that creep in way too often that I talk badly about myself in my age. All my back hurts, of course, at 44 or whatever. My leg hurts or whatever the fuck hurts. Something hurts all the time. I there's not a day where something doesn't hurt. Marc (27:32) Okay, but... Right. Now, given everything you just said, do you think you are in a not like, this mindset that you just shared, do you think that's most people your age? Or what percentage of people of that age actually hold up? Paul (28:03) ⁓ I don't think it's majority. Marc (28:03) of your age. Take a guess. For sure not, for sure not, right. Which is the spirit of this conversation, right? Because the majority of the people are choosing the alternate kind of paths. Okay, I'm in my career, I'm just gonna do this, I'm gonna do that. ⁓ This is a thing I know, I'm just gonna continue to know it. Bah bah bah bah bah. That's kind of the spirit. So to your credit, I agree with everything you just said. You're taking risks, you're re-imagining yourselves, you're running fucking AI tools faster than they come out, candidly. It's kind of scary what you're doing. Paul (28:09) for sure not. Yeah. Yeah. No, no, for sure not. Yeah. Yeah, fair enough. Fair enough. Marc (28:37) Fair testament to it. Well, the other just in derangement, and then there's like the community thing. And I think this is what's always fascinating to me. you know, do you ever have that? See, I have a few friends. They're like, I'm closing up shop. I have enough friends. I don't need to meet any other people, any new people. Do you ever have that? That to me is also another thing. Paul (28:37) I have a new story actually. But anyways, yeah, it's fun. Lots of fun. Yeah, I have it, but I also have to say, I also have that, I mean, I have to correct myself again. It's not only the bodily things, the whole community part and I guess being alone because also I am, you know, I'm divorced, so sometimes I am alone, you know, I'm coming back to a large flat that is empty like today. ⁓ And that is kind of lonely. And then, you know, I do work a lot. I work on our project and other projects, blah, blah. Marc (29:17) sure. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Paul (29:27) So there is this piece. And then I also like some things in a certain way, you know, talking about the flexibility and the going to bed at 930. I can kind of relate, you know, I don't like it anymore as much when shit is not happening in the way that I like it to happen. So I like to get up early in the morning without a headache. I like to do go to the gym at eight. I like to then go to bed early and I'm fine when I Marc (29:51) Same. Paul (29:57) completely ⁓ leave all of this behind like I did last week. But honestly, I also caught myself then on Saturday, Sunday, seeing last week was awesome and fun, but also, I mean, I almost lost grip on the things that were happening. I also wasn't that present with all the alcohol we drank. mean, what the fuck? And I don't quite like that anymore. So I have a... Marc (30:02) But that's not a lifestyle. Paul (30:24) higher premium I guess on presence and on really getting what's happening and not just blasting through it that yeah maybe that's a negative thing about being old but I sometimes I feel like I shouldn't become like the cynical inflexible old man that wants things in a certain way and I'll never find someone who wants to stay with me I guess when I'm like this and I have that thought sometimes very openly you know and I think you're different than me you know Marc (30:48) Yeah, that's interesting. Paul (30:51) when it comes to that. And maybe a bit more of an old man when going there. Marc (30:56) Well, look, mean, I'm not, and again, this isn't really an episode about partying. It's about a mindset that's useful sometimes as a proxy, but I hear you. And also, like when I was, even this week, which was very socially intense, I'm like, okay, back in the day, I liked that all the time. Now, a little bit less so, and to turn it off. I think you find the right balance, but it's still. Again, balance being important and also trying to modernize a little bit of what always made, what gave you, fueled up your curiosity, it just be different things that would slot in that bucket, you know, keeping it true. Paul (31:33) Yeah, but I think it's, love this. I mean, I asked you before like a few hours ago, do we know what we're going to talk about? Is this enough? But actually it's giving me something that I hadn't thought about a little bit of a framework if we want. And let's fact check this afterwards about the things we talked about, right? The attributes, curiosity, ability to change and flexibility. What else did we have? Play, creation. Marc (31:39) No Play. Community creation and community. Paul (32:03) Creation and Community. Okay, those five things, five is a great number. So I'm okay on the Create part. I think I'm ⁓ okay on the Flexi... I could already improve a little bit there. I'm okay on the Community part. What did I leave out? Play. I could... Marc (32:21) play. I think you're pretty fucking good on the play part, dude. Are you kidding me? Yeah, yeah, what's with this one? You're really good on the play part. I wouldn't worry about that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Paul (32:26) I mean, I was pretty fucking good last week on the play part. I'm good on the play part. I'm actually sometimes too good on the play part. Yeah, I agree with you. so, okay, like out of those five dimensions, I have two that I can, and I think there's sometimes a bit of the flexibility and definitely the community and the curiosity about new people, because in general, I'm, I like it, but I'm also sometimes very happy not to meet anybody. You know, you know me, you know, I'm more of a, I can be an introvert and an extrovert. It kind of depends on the time of the day. Marc (32:42) Hmm. Yeah. Well, and let's be real, like that's not ⁓ a, there are introverts or extroverts, et cetera. This isn't to hit like those who are more introverted and say, but yeah. Paul (32:57) and the amount of wine I had. No, no, no, it's not about that and being one is better than the other. just saying, I could, I, you know, those are the two come again that, that I would like to, ⁓ pay closer attention to because that's the ones where I feel it creeps in. Right. And obviously, you know, ⁓ what do you say? Men's sano in corporate, sa men's sauna. Well, never know in corporate sano, think anyways, so you have to have a healthy mind with a healthy body and those two things. as we know, Marc (33:19) Hmm. Mmm. Mmm. Paul (33:37) they actually interact, not one supersedes the other. So and obviously that's the other one staying fit and all of this because I think when you start hurting everywhere it's much easier to feel old. So that's obviously a predicament and a kind of a base and a condition present which I'm I fulfill I think very well so there's no question about that. Marc (33:44) course. that's when you that's exactly I think that's the baseline. Yeah. I've never met anyone who was vibrant in life and not fit unless they were really rich. no, I just think in my experience, every person who was just having a blast, et cetera, and not fit in their 50s and 60s, et cetera, and just living it, I was like, it's because Paul (34:06) Define vibrant. Marc (34:24) you've got money and have oriented your brain really well. Like you've just lucked out that way. I feel like the others are... Paul (34:29) I don't know, I met people like you say in Germany, and Lebermann, know, people that really live well. And my grandfather was one of those. He had a big belly, but he had lots of fun and he loved eating. He also died very early. know, but... he clearly wasn't fit, man, but he was vibrant. mean, he was very vibrant. Marc (34:36) Mm. Stop. Okay. ⁓ Well there's that too. ⁓ my god, well, one of my dad's best friends was exactly, had a large belly, exactly. But now he's an old man by territory. He tells the same stories and lovely guy, but his kids and his wife go on vacation and he still sits at home. anyway, that's what happens, I guess, when you blow through your energy. ⁓ Paul (34:58) Yeah, I remember the story. Marc (35:22) early on in life. Okay, anyway, this was a lot of fun. It was rich. Paul (35:26) Also, I think we even have a framework. I mean, I still don't remember the five things. I'm gonna remember them and put them in the show notes, which always promise I never never. All right, okay, man. So Terminator and Idiot of the Week. And we're not talking about politics here today, guys, which, you know, could be a topic for. Yeah, go ahead. Marc (35:40) No, we're not. No, no, no, no, no, no. Should I go first? Okay, so Terminator of the Week, I have to give it to my friend in Berlin, Thomas Goos, threw like, you know, this is, I think he's 43, it doesn't matter. But point is, that, I mean, this is so classic Berlin, but he's actually doing it really well, which is he, you know, was... leader of CEO of this actually quite cool company and is also a part-time DJ. And the way he took out his decks for his house party and was DJing on a Friday night was bananas. Like I could not believe, I was like track after track and then was just, the crowd kept going. like, should we go out? Like, should we go out? We all decided, no, we're just going to stay here. The music is killer. he, I'm, Paul (36:21) Wow. So you did a house party, how old are you? Hahaha! Marc (36:38) So he gets the Terminator of the week, and then he, not only that, after the, this is a little crazy, but you know, then on Saturday I woke up, I went to go see my cousin Jen, and then suddenly I see this guy, I was like, why isn't he still in bed? Like, he gets up, he puts on a jacket and tie, I was like, where are going? He was like, yeah, I'm leader of this Ravers Council, you know, for like 12 weeks. I said, we have a meeting, we have a meeting at 1 p.m. I was like, okay, you could take the Terminator role. Paul (37:02) That's amazing. Marc (37:08) Ha Paul (37:08) Okay, good one. Very good one. mean, my Terminator is, ⁓ I guess, Paris or Clamado again, where we were, you know, and we haven't talked about it, but it is an excellent choice. Again, we went to the restaurant where it all started. It actually was as good as it was the first time, I would say. And obviously the city, especially for a short visit, and I'm obviously aware that it is a... Marc (37:32) It really was. Paul (37:36) tough city to live in as any large cities in terms of, know, whatever, all the things, schools and money and green and blah, blah, blah. But to just go there for a couple of days, meet up with a very good friend of yours and just have fun and have a blast is amazing. If I ever lived there, I would shorten my life spent by at least 10, if not 20 years. I mean, I think, I mean, I mean, Marc (38:03) ⁓ Paul (38:05) I'd say had breakfast on one day was a glass of wine and a cigarette, you know, and that was on day two, basically, kind of. That's how I felt, you know. So Marc (38:05) Yeah, and your retirement savings. Yeah, there we go. Paul (38:13) if you kind of extrapolate this, it would have had a very sudden end. But still, fuck me, amazing place. Marc (38:17) Well done. Okay, good one. Good one, good one. Okay, my idiot of the week is, guys, we've all had the Uber driver that would not talk. Shut up, We've all had that, right? When you get in an Uber and you're like, my God, Yeah, okay. I had an epic one. So I was in Paris, I was going to the airport to Berlin, to Orly. I hop in the Uber, right? I'm like, perfect, right? Paul (38:36) Yeah, yeah. Not so often actually. Marc (38:49) I'm writing a message and my phone's running out of batteries, so I can't use it. And the guy's like, ⁓ Mark, winter, yeah, fliegst nach Deutschland. Are you German? And I was like, my God, right? And I answered yes. Dude, no, he was ⁓ from Cyprus, but lived in Cologne and ⁓ works in Paris and then was just talking to me about 45 minutes about like, Paul (39:04) Was he German? Marc (39:18) incredibly inappropriate shit, like that you did not want to know exactly about, like his neighbors. I guess one anecdote is like, you know, maybe that's funny, but he's like, I had, you know, two of my neighbors who overdose on Viagra, you know, it's crazy. It was like going on. It was that conversation. And you couldn't shut him up. It was 45 minutes of incredible dude. And I was trying to be polite, but you know, you needed to get to the airport. So that's the that's the tension. So. Paul (39:23) Wow. Wow. Jesus, how long is the way to Ali? my god. That's way too long. Yeah, I don't know, man. I mean, I guess I did it the week I did myself last week, right? And yeah, I can do myself again. You know, this is one worth, you know, so OK. Yesterday morning, I woke up still in the ski area and it was an awful day. There was no sun. It was just fog. I was tired as fuck, as you can imagine. Marc (39:54) No, you're dead. ⁓ Paul (40:11) ⁓ But we still had booked a guide, four of us, and I told the guys, guys, you know, I mean, I'm happy to pay my share of the guide, but I'm going to fuck off and get an earlier train to Vienna because I mean, I'm not going to ski in this weather and I'd love to be at home and see my kids and so on. So I left only three hours later, get an image from the guys. Basically the fog went up a few hundred meters and then above the fog, was fucking beautiful. And they had a great day. Marc (40:22) Yeah, yeah. Right, right. Paul (40:40) And they deserve it and I deserve the edit of the week. So that's it. Marc (40:44) Okay, well done, well done. Well, dude, it was awesome to chat with you. Yeah, lovely, have a good one. Paul (40:48) Man, that was fun. Good job. Thank you. Have a good week, ciao! Marc (40:55) Ciao.