The Failures We Refuse to Own | Ep 48

Paul (00:05) Welcome to Guys Like Us. This is the podcast about all the things that you start thinking about when you come into your prime, which other people also call midlife. It's the podcast about relationships, professional life, friendships, fun things, and sincere things like failures, for example. That's the topic we're gonna talk about today. And I am here with my co-host Mark. My name is Paul. I am actually calling in from New York. Marc Winter (00:24) Ooh. Amazing. Welcome. Paul (00:34) As is Mark. Amazing. I just barely made it to my hotel. Who am I though? My name's Paul. As I said, I am originally from Vienna, here in New York for this week. An entrepreneur, a father of three, a lover of rabbit holes. And I actually always thought I'm okay with failures, but we're gonna find out today. And I'm joined by my dear friend, not so far away, I think a kilometer or a mile away from here. Mark. Marc Winter (00:59) Welcome, welcome to New York. It's good to see you. We're happy to have you. I'm an entrepreneur, self-proclaimed artist, father of two, bit of a risk taker, somewhat uncomfortable with failure. I really can't wait to talk about this episode, actually. I think I'm gonna learn something on it. And it's great to be here. I'm so sorry this weather's so shit. Like it was we've had an amazing two weeks. I feel like I've been in LA, like expecting great weather. And now you're you're here, but you know what? Paul (01:27) Listen, Marc Winter (01:27) It's gonna be the worst time. Paul (01:28) I'm coming out of a heat wave. We had like thirty five degrees yesterday and the day before yesterday. So I was actually quite pleased to feel some rain. So I'm totally fine. I I'm just happy to be here, man. I'm really happy to be here. Yeah. Listen, actually as we usually do, I mean in the drink section, what are you having? I'm having New York's finest. I can finally say that. Yeah. Marc Winter (01:35) Excellent. Great. perfect. That's just what I that's what I wanted to hear. I'm so happy you're here. Amazing. Really? y you know, I'm just having a a dub which is a Dortmund Alager, which is one of my favorite session beers. You it it's really hard to find actually in Germany. It's weird because I used to drink this, you know, basically since I was a teenager. My dad would always get this, this and some San Pauli girl. And when I actually had a layover in Dortmund, and I'm gonna respectfully say a layover is probably as much of time as you need in that place. Paul (01:57) wow. Hmm. Hmm. Fair enough, fair enough. Marc Winter (02:19) The the first thing I was doing was going to the the the German Knipas to look for this and of course I couldn't find it, right? And I like, Is this an export only kind of label? It could actually be. Yeah, yeah. But it's good. Or or Bex. Becs, yeah, yeah, exactly. Paul (02:28) That could be. That could be probably made in America. Make it like all these Amstels that you get in in Africa and they're all made there. Exactly all these things. No, I actually though I I did have as a this was a long day, I had a pretty nice flight over and I had one or two glasses of very nice French published stuff. That was really really nice. So that's I'm still I'm still high on that stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Marc Winter (02:48) Good, good. Can I can I ask you something for a weapon? When do you not upgrade yourself to business class when you come over here? Every time I talk to you, you're like, Yeah, like you know, I was here, I upgraded myself. You're like, I'm just like I'm using miles. I was like, it's like impossible. Yeah. Paul (03:05) Yeah, I'm always using miles and I still had mice and was very h very happy today that this worked because it's like a a full on self treat. I know I mean I do still have to fly a lot for work and I collect these things and I you know. Exactly. And I and I really looked forward to those eight hours sitting in my little cubicle there and and I watched, you know, a whole series of on Netflix and I had nice lunch. I slept for two hours. I mean it's amazing. I mean, so you know, no complaints, absolutely no complaints. Marc Winter (03:10) Amazing. Yeah. It's it's like going to the spa, you know? Except you're on you're on a amazing. Yeah. You look good. Paul (03:34) Listen, we wanted to talk about failures, or I wanted to talk about failures today because Yeah, because you know, I remember what the trigger was though. The trigger was that we recorded an episode, I think a week or so ago, or two weeks ago, two weeks ago, that really sucked. That was the first time in a very long time, in like ten months, that we said we can't put this out because it's sh it's just absolute shite. Marc Winter (03:38) You've been dying to talk about this subject. I'm I'm curious. It was terrible. It it it was it was the first time if we someone listened to our episode, I'd be like, God, that was embarrassing. It was like it like it had it would have no future. It would have no future, you know? I mean if okay. I d exac exactly. Let's put this way. Listeners, if AI shits on your podcast the right like then you know you really fucked up. Paul (04:07) I don't think it was that bad. Talking about how to deal with failure. I don't think it was that bad. Ex it no, it's true. We we fed it to Claude and it basically said this is absolute rubbish. Yeah. And and and even, you know, without telling him he should be really mean. He he he was in his, you know, please caress my boss mode, you know, and they still told us it's crap, you know. Exactly. Marc Winter (04:37) Yeah, exactly. It's like what can I do for you? Exactly. This falls well short of your typical potential. And I was like, you know, exactly. Paul (04:45) Exactly. That is true. So we we we we let that go. And then in the course of this, I I like to think of an an Instagram clip. I I got played a lot. maybe Instagram is listening to my failures and giving me this. No, but it is no joking aside, it is a clip from of Nicky Lauda, you know, the famous and and late Austrian Formula One pilot, three time world champion. Marc Winter (05:13) Ami amazing. Paul (05:14) And when he was an a an amazing character and when he received one of these awards, I the Laura Sports Award for his lifetime achievements, he said, He I am dedicating this award not to the winners but the losers. Yeah. And he said, you know, because of the failures, I always learned the most. So and that's kind of what you say, right? Usually. And then there is this cunt, and then I was kind of starting to dig into this and and wondering, do you really? Marc Winter (05:28) Mm-hmm. Paul (05:41) And in fact, there is research that says exactly the opposite. That says you really don't, because you don't really like to look at your favorite failures. So you kind of skim over them and and and don't really process them in the same way that you, for example, process your wins. So actually you don't. So I I wanted to open our conversation on this topic up with this provocation and ask you, dear Mark, what do you think? In which camp are you? Marc Winter (05:45) Hmm. Do I learn from my failures or do I not? Well Paul (06:16) Or more from failures than from wins or the other way around, I guess, is the question. Marc Winter (06:19) I definitely learn more from wins than from failures in my head. Like I just feel like, okay, that worked. Like great. Let's keep doing that, you know? If something doesn't work, I'm like, okay, what went wrong? Why didn't it work? And then I mean I do try to learn from them, but the majority of my learnings are from what's working then versus what isn't. Paul (06:28) Yeah. Okay, okay. Are are you in a camp of kind of like still def I mean, is there a failure that you still defend? Like I just defended our podcast where I said, you know, I don't think it's that bad, you know? Marc Winter (06:55) I mean you should ask my wife how many d failures I she she I mean I I I I'm in c I'm constantly playing defense on failures. But if you but if but if what you're talking Paul (07:00) No, no, that's why I'm asking, because I think there is something there. There might be something there. But now you have an argument, you can actually tell Vera next time, listen, the reason I'm doing this is because if I'm making this a win, I can actually learn from it. Marc Winter (07:19) Yeah, that's that's great. It's exactly the divorce comes in about six months exactly. no but look I think I I will tell you what I suck at. I think of failure as an invitation to go deeper a lot of them, right? Are invitations to go deeper on in the pursuit of some version of improvement or in some cases perfection, depending on what you're after. Paul (07:24) Exactly. Marc Winter (07:49) And it's also hard work to do that. And I think it's much easier to when you've got a win, say, wow, that worked. Cool. Why did it why did it work? Why did I feel awesome? It's just easy to coast on that. The failure side I think is it it's you know, you you have to stare a little bit harder in the mirror. And I I think it's it's an art form and and a practice, you know, versus something that comes natural for us. Paul (08:08) Mm. Yeah, when when I think about this question, I mean, is there failure that I still defend, for example? I think there are, to be honest. Right. Also big ones. That that's one angle. There are me, you know, ending off the the way my my stint as a CO ended also is a failure, you know, if if you think about it. And I'm I very often tried to reframe them as a win, which I I still think it is. So here we go. I'm in the middle of it, which Marc Winter (08:38) Mm-hmm. Paul (08:46) I mean, I c you know, I can't now say objectively, you know. so that's one angle. Th the other one is though that I personally think that I mean I failed in my eyes so badly in some things in my life and that they hurt so much that I really advanced from those failures more than from any other win. But they were extreme to an extent, you know. I mean blowing up my marriage, all these kind of things, they were so hardcore. Marc Winter (08:47) That's every reader. Paul (09:13) That they really made me go and change something and do something and learn. More than any other win could ever do. Right? So so that's to me, that's why I'm I'm very biased towards the I don't know, man. I think if you really fail hard, I I think that for me personally, this was the best learning opportunity. And then the other side of it is that I hate failing so much because I'm such a perfectionist and I know that it's not a great thing to be, right? I mean. Marc Winter (09:21) It's interesting. That's it. Paul (09:41) Well I I won't let's not put a label on it, but I am. I hate it so fucking much that I I really try to learn from when I fail. And and on the the flip side of this is that sometimes I don't even start doing things because I don't want to fail, which is the opposite of taking a risk. But anyways. Yeah. Marc Winter (09:50) Mm. I w I definitely want to talk about that. I would definitely want to talk about that. Okay. Something you said resonates with me a lot. So, you know, I wish a few years ago I had a role change at my former company. And it was a lot 'cause like revenue really wasn't working, et cetera, and I was leading business development and sales, right? And I I I knew there was being some some fingers pointed at me. And I think there's a lot of things I could have done better. and My response was to blame, you know, I took some responsibility, but I didn't want to take all of it. So I started pointing fingers everywhere around me, you know. Which I think you know, and there's some truth to that, and I'll still defend that as you would say, you know, like but ultimately I didn't want to be accountable for for that. And and because I I probably wouldn't have liked being accountable for something like that. So I refuse to be accountable for that. And I I think that's that's really interesting. because you could argue and I was hearing you talk out loud, especially about your time at WOM, makes me think a little bit of time, you know. So look we we've all had missteps in big jobs. Paul (10:56) Mm. Marc Winter (11:13) And the the reckoning, how you choose to reckon with that mis misstep really informs what your next step is, right? Paul (11:25) man, Mike, I love that you yeah, sorry. Mm. Marc Winter (11:26) And I think I'm channeling my lessons. No, I'm just channeling those missteps I think into what I'm doing now and I'm notice and I'm doing it more implicitly, you know, versus, here are the lessons I've learned from that fail and now I'm changing you know what I mean? Paul (11:40) Yeah, I I know what you mean and what you just said made me think of something else that we really stepped into this conversation about failure basically on the last phase of it is actually learning from it, right? We s I started with that. Whereas when you think of, you know, kind of the sequence of failing and what happens, the first step is really, you know, owning what you said is accountability. Marc Winter (11:57) Mm. Paul (12:09) Owning your mistakes, standing up for it, taking responsibility. And I remember someone, you know, telling me once, you know, I mean, you fucked up, take responsibility. And it's what we try to teach our kids as well, right? When they when they fuck up, I have lots of arguments with my son who loves pointing fingers at others. And I was like, listen, I don't give a fuck. I just want you to say, I fucked this up. Take responsibility. And and and and it's hard for us because we don't want to face that, right? Because we can't change it. Marc Winter (12:09) Yeah. Yeah. Totally. Yeah, that's right. Paul (12:37) Yeah, it's usually it's so raw that you don't see the the the the silver lining, the learning yet, and to just sit there and stand there and say, Yes, I made a mistake. It's my responsibility, and now I have to deal with it. What and that's it, nothing more. That's already kind of step one and and an important one. And one, as you just said, right? I mean, very easily he goes, Yeah, but you know, it was actually only 70% my mistake. You know, it could have been also twenty this and ten that. And that's step one. And I think that's already an a a really important one. And ha and and actually sometimes I feel also very nice. It feels nice if you do that. I don't know how how you relate to this, but if you finally sit there and say, Yeah, I fucked this one up. Marc Winter (13:24) I agree. and I think that's where I think it it feels nice 'cause we're older and like we've seen enough. We we know what it feels like to that often not accepting responsibility for your mistakes comes usually comes to bite you in the ass. And so you might as well you might as well get it fucking over with. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And your pursuit of Yeah. Paul (13:38) Yes, and it's is it it's like an energy that is never resolved, you know? It eats at you somehow. It it it's not great. It's really not great. And then comes the whole learning stuff and so but you know, is there any mistakes you've never really publicly admitted to? Things that you're like, you know, there were you always kinda polish them over? Is or is that just the example you gave, or is there anything that I mean, I don't wanna air it. Well, although I would air it right now, it'd be fun, but Marc Winter (14:02) No, no, no, no. I mean, look, I mean, I I I've done so many stupid things in my career where I where I've really completely, you know, fucked up and you know, I once like totally forgot to report like a, you know, a multi million dollar potential miss for the firm for the to kind of I these are like basic stuff that but like actually that seems so minor. I'm trying to think what's the I've let's put it this way, I think I've owned up to my biggest mistakes in life, most of them. You know, I think there's some career ones that I probably I think are easier to massage versus the personal. I think you really need to confront them if if you've done wrong or you've made a wrong bet. so I guess I'd let me win the plane. I I don't think there's a major misstep or or mistake or failure that I've refused to address. I think there's things wrong I can be do be better at it that could be potential failures that if I should I should address now. Paul (15:10) Fair enough. Fair enough. and then I wonder what about failures of others when others fail in front of you? What is your first reaction? Is it relief, Schadenfreude? shame, fremd schemen we say in German, you know, if you feel shame for somebody else or feel embarrassed for somebody else. Can you yeah. Marc Winter (15:20) Now that is interesting. Great word. Yeah, you know, it depends. If it's an I told you so. I mean, of course you're you're you're feeling you know Schadenfoyer. That's the best. That's like that's just the best. It's like I told you it's gonna blow up, and guess what happened? Yeah, exactly. Like, but that no, no, no, no, it's it's full pleasure. It's thank you for failing. Yeah, exactly. Paul (15:46) No, I love those. I mean let's face it, that's it's the best. It's the best. I hate to say this, but I told you so. And actually I don't hate to say this. I just love to say this. I love it. Thank you for fucking this up. Yeah. Marc Winter (16:06) You know, I think helping people look well let me let me say it another way. Helping people navigate failure to me is actually quite joyful. I think there's there's an exercise around, you know, there's it's a little bit like kinda grief in a way, you know, like you you kinda have to go through like shouting pain to acceptance, whatever the whatever those those those phases are. Yeah. But I think helping surface some of the learnings, right? And then and then having them come back to it and and and making sure that they take it forward, I think is to me is always really a nice exercise. Yeah. And what about you? Paul (16:38) Yeah, phases are. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I'm I am I I read this question and I wasn't sure, to be honest, because I do remember my own failures way more vividly than any others. Yeah, I have to say. And then it really depends on how I react, but it's not like I studied the failures of others. I I surfaced this question because the research actually says that we learn the most neither from our own failures nor from our successes, but from the failures of others. Right? Because their failures Marc Winter (17:07) Mm. I believe that a hundred percent. Paul (17:26) Well see here you go. I I don't. I really don't. I mean I I don't I mean if you asked me now I'd be hard pressed to tell you the failure of somebody else that I learned from. I mean I'm sure there's a hundred books about this and you know, how big companies fail and blah blah blah. I also find them boring by the way. about this a different but Marc Winter (17:41) no no no I I no it's totally fair. I mean come on, I I've watched loads of human beings, right? Like like really good people who've made mistakes, which I've like w like really, you know, thought about and tried to have like learn from and avoid. To you know, careers where like people stayed in in too long at a job, you know, which I still would think is a failure. People who made the wrong kind of bet. They took they took the money, right, and now are miserable. Like like like there's a lot of moments and you look definition of failure I'm putting in real big quotation marks because you know I mean it could be big big fail and little and little fail you know but I I pay hyper attention to people's mistakes so because I feel like hey you know in this crazy path that's life there's so many different moves you can make you know let's be aware of other people and other people are making moves weirdly in some cases on your behalf you know they're teaching you things about stuff and so I I I really Paul (18:16) Mm. Yeah, yeah. Fair enough. Yeah, yeah. Mm. Marc Winter (18:39) I really think about that a lot. Paul (18:44) that's interesting. Marc Winter (18:44) And pay attention and when people share what's working or what isn't, you know. Paul (18:49) Maybe I should do that more than I would feel less. Marc Winter (18:51) Ha ha exactly. Like what I take away from this conversation is that Paul is very self-centered and looking in and Mark is looking out. Paul (18:59) No y not to to a certain extent. I I do think that I I am not sure about this because for me this failure is something very visceral and something very embodied. You know, and when I feel failure there are so many emotions that come with this. I it's shame, it's hating to lose, it's competitiveness and all of this is really driving me. And if I see it somebody else I don't feel any of those things. Maybe because I'm I'm totally not empathic and I'm like, okay, I don't give a fuck that this person is failing. I don't think so. But it's not the same to me. So somehow I have so much more material to work with if it's the own shit that I made than when somebody else is doing it. So I I really cannot relate to that theory. I And also not from the successes. I think I learned much more from my wins, from my losses than my successes. Maybe because I had more of those. That could also be just a a pure numbers game. I don't know. But yeah, I don't know. Maybe I'm too self critical. Could could also be. Marc Winter (19:55) no. Well may could c can can I offer just a slight like a a two degree shift? So w what one of the things I'm learning a lot from failure or the thing I learned most from failure is I look a lot around people's mindset around that. Like like less about the move, but what state of mind were they in when they made that thing? So I'll give you an example. Like friends who took a friend who took a very big job for the money, right? Paul (20:05) Please, please save me. Marc Winter (20:30) And like I knew like he was stressed about, you know, like family at about like paying kids stuff, et cetera. And this job took along, which smelled like the biggest turd in the world, you know? And well, it's just like you just you would just with it. Like as soon as he's talking about it, this is gonna the worst thing ever, right? But he, you know, like he took it and and obviously was miserable at like miserable in in day two, you know. Paul (20:49) Ever. Yeah. Marc Winter (20:59) And then y you could feel that like okay, like you were never in the right frame of mind to make that choice. Right. And I think a lot about mindset when I come back to and th that's just a big career example, right? But there's there there are many others. Paul (21:13) No, I love this. I love this because it's exactly where I got stuck before when I thought of others, is that I I'm not sure I know, you know, what is the context, what did they feel when they made this decision, what was playing in there? And for myself I kinda know, right? when I think about it. So I I think that makes it harder for me. But okay, hey, listen, everybody is different, I guess. But I think it's amazing. I take something from this that maybe to do to look more Marc Winter (21:24) Hmm. Yeah. Paul (21:42) at others and and their failures. But I guess also sorry to be honest, it is about how many people and now we're probably coming back to the vulnerability part, maybe but we talked about in our last podcast as well. How many people really talk openly about their failures? Because I think that's when you learn. When somebody like you just says, you know what? Listen, this is where where where I fucked up. This is the state of mind I was in. Now I reflected on this and da da da da da Marc Winter (21:45) Just Mm. That I a hundred percent agree with. Paul (22:10) That is, I think, that's an amazing learning opportunity. But w how often does that actually happen to you? Marc Winter (22:14) I agree. It doesn't happen very often, but but actually I think w w one of the lessons you're describing really eloquently, implicit or not, is actually how to talk about a failure. Right and and context is mindset like is like all those forces are really interesting, you know? So you can understand the decision and what happened like in in in in greater clarity. I'm sure there's some military kind of it sounds like a military framework in a way, but it's but Paul (22:26) Yes. Yeah, yeah. Marc Winter (22:46) Because most people express the regret of a thing versus the full context of that thing, you know? And that to me is really interesting. So Paul (22:57) I think so too. And it goes into to the last section to me is like what do you want to model as a leader when it comes to failure? Marc Winter (23:03) Mm-hmm. I I think it's gotta be accountability, right? Like it like that's the number one thing. I made a decision, I fucked it up. We're gonna either like here's what I'm learning from it, what else should we learn from it? Great, let's move on and never do it again. Or like or do this differently again. I I think that's that's gotta be it. Do you have a different answer or is the same? Paul (23:06) What do you think? Yes. No, I think it's that. I I think I mean and I really have to think about my kids a lot because I fuck up with them and if you know, it that happens that I scream at them for s no fucking reason other that I was maybe too tired and they were obviously pains in the asses. But I explained to them, it's like yes, of course your behavior wasn't great. Yeah. of course it would be much easier for me if the three of you don't kill each other in the morning and just eat your fucking breakfast, you know, brush your teeth and get out of the house. But that doesn't give me, you know, that's not an excuse for me, you know, crossing that board and screaming at you because that's not gonna do anything. So that's taking accountability and I think that's the same in a job. Marc Winter (24:05) Okay. But I agree. I wanna I wanna raise us just a little bit in the short time we have for a sec to make this more meta for for the the the prime of our life. You know. Because when we say prime, I think what people are acutely feeling failure failure in our age are probably three buckets, right? It's it's relationships, parents, and job. And and I think what's hard for people is to make it so far in life and say like, my job isn't working, my career isn't working, you know? And you're like, dude, you had twenty five years to make this right. It's still not working. Like, no, it's not working. It's really hard. I've been married for for 10 years, you know, whatever, 15 years, et cetera. Like like I can't even look at look sh share a you know, text message with this person without just feeling ick. Or my kids, okay, that's really hard. Or my kids my kids are are brats. I don't know how to manage them. They're ruining my li you know, they're they're taking over my life and I you know, I have no control anymore. And and all three are of such meta extreme fails. And it goes back to actually to our conversation with Yasmin, you know, when she talks about what are the top the top three issues around s who she sees around therapy, which are parents, career and relationships, right? And you add kids to that, right? Which is would probably be the fourth. Paul (25:26) Of course. Marc Winter (25:30) And these are such profound like underneath that there are a million choices that w that we've just outlined, right? But because there's such strong winch pins to your life and how you feel about that life and how you measure that life, right? it makes it really, really hard to talk about, I think for many. because you feel like if if it's a three-pong stool, you know, you remove the relationship part, falls forward, you know, you move the kids' part falls forward, you move, you know. And the if I if if I take away something from this conversation, which of which there are many outside of like there there are a lot of patterns underneath that is that comes back a little bit to also the vulnerability piece is that like we should acknowledge how much of our life is dependent on around these kinds of buckets and like how it feels to like have something go wrong around these things. Because when you have something wrong going wrong around your career, it affects everything else. and It's hard to contain that one thing. You know what I mean? Paul (26:32) I know what you mean. So they do, and I think what what comes in as you say in this f phase of your life is the angle that that for the first time you feel that you have lived longer than you will live. And that you kind of feel like you're running out of time and that makes actually admitting to a failure much harder because you then are a failure in period. So there is one obviously fallacy in that is that A we don't we're not out of time. I think that that's one thing. Marc Winter (26:45) That's a great point. Paul (27:02) And that's true for our kids, for careers, for relationships, for so many things. And the other thing though is also now imagine you are at your deathbed, right? And and you really fucked up something in your life. I think you would still be better off in admitting to it and taking responsibility and letting that go and not letting letting it gnaw at you all the time. So I think that's the other part no matter how old you are, and if you have a chance to make it up or not, because right that that's I think kind of what's looming that you can't. Kind of my my take on that. Marc Winter (27:34) Yeah, no, it's a good one. And it's a good one. And look, I mean, one thing we didn't talk about, which is just because I think it's kind of obvious. I mean, look, we're we're both kind of bit of risk tak takers. I mean, I think we're both what's that great Michael Jordan sh quote, you miss a hundred percent of the shots you don't take, you know. Like you know, I think we're we're all kinda g agree on that, but I think just to like level up to like why it's often hard to talk about is especially I think at our age, because I think the expectation is that you should have figured this shit out, you know. Paul (27:50) Absolutely. Yeah. Marc Winter (28:04) And failing out is really hard to ask. Paul (28:08) Hey, listen, all ties back to my favorite quote, right? I mean, happiness is is reality minus expectations, yeah. So if you always manage to keep the expectations low and say, you know, I'm just gonna try this out. If it works, it works. If it doesn't hey, it really helps on this. The failures that are really hard are the failures on the things that you really wanted to happen. You know, and I think this is what's really hard. where your expectations were actually high, and that's what hurts, I think. the most. And but nevertheless, I mean the same structure applies to every failure. You know, it's kind of like admitting to it, moving on, the best case learning from it. And in the very, very best case, I guess sharing it. in a way that others can also learn from it. I mean to to kind of close that close that loop as well. Marc Winter (28:56) Here, here. This is good. Paul (28:57) Hear, here. This is also a great segue, my friend, to the Terminator and Idiotic Things of the Week. Marc Winter (29:05) Yeah, my God. I can go first. So fear of failure. Okay, so I'm gonna make these fail failure oriented. let's start with the idiotic thing I did this week. Which I mean gosh, there's so many idiotic things I did this week. I have to say, like me booking super early flights for no reason is just the dumbest thing I've ever done. Like like why Did I book a 730 AM flight? Like that's just like there's no re this to book a 730 a.m. flight to save fifty bucks, you know, because the eight forty like it's it would it was it is you realize that when you're in the car right over, you're like, that is the dumbest thing ever. And I'm like I'm like forty-five years old when waiting. Okay. Greatest terminator of the week. It has to be UNDAV and the German national team. I was at the World Cup. Paul (29:37) Mm-hmm. That is fucking stupid. Yeah, that is stupid. That is that is done. Marc Winter (30:02) in Toronto and Paul (30:03) of course, man. Jesus, wow, what a game to be at, yeah. Marc Winter (30:08) And talk about learning from your mistakes. If this if this Nogglesman doesn't realize that you have to put in a a actual striker to win the games and striker. You're not gonna win, but yeah, it works. Yeah, exactly. Paul (30:19) Bye-bye. Crazy. You know what I find fascinating that the Germans every every big tournament they they bring some other guy that no one has ever heard of. And last time it was this guy like Fulkrug. Fülkrug. No one heard of this guy before and after, to be honest. I mean a little bit afterwards. Now it's it's amazing. It's amazing, you know. It's what what a country of 80 million people does, you know. I mean you have to say also we don't have that. We have on listen, my most idiotic thing of the week. Marc Winter (30:31) Yeah. Fulk. Yeah. Fulkruk. Yeah. Yeah, to be honest. Yeah yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Scored two brilliant goals. Yeah. Yeah. What about you? Sorry, Paul Paul's looking from the from the defeat to Argentina which is just three three hours ago and he shouldn't be 'cause that's it was okay. Yeah. Paul (30:57) Yeah, whatever. mean it shit happens, you know. No, no, I'm also sitting in a room that is like twelve square meters that is reeking of wine because not all of the bottles I brought to you, Mark, survived the trip. Yes. So yes. So currently wearing fresh but slightly Riesling-y, yeah, underwear. The silver lining is that the cheapest bottle broke. Marc Winter (31:08) No, no, no. Shy Paul (31:25) And the three out of four actually made it. That never happened to me before in my life. So that was by far the most stupid thing. and yeah. to actually pad the bottles better, which I usually do, but I wrap them and I have a hard case suitcase and I thought it wouldn't w work. It that never happened to me. And I had, you know, I I I'm in a contraband business, been in the business for a long time and this is an this is new. This is new. Marc Winter (31:28) my God. Okay. Well what are you learning from this failure? I was about to say, you've been in this business a long time. Exactly. Paul (31:55) Yeah. and my Terminator is always also going to be World Cup related because I think for as much as this World Cup has been shed on before it started that there would be empty stadiums and the tickets are too expensive and they are blah blah blah. I find the pictures that you see of these beautiful stadiums, full and amazing atmosphere, are unbelievable. I think they're awesome. Yeah. So that's an absolute terminator. Marc Winter (32:18) Yeah. Yeah. And and we're gonna experience it together very soon. Paul (32:23) God, I can't wait. I can't wait unless I mean you're gonna have to bring me over some t shirts that don't reek of wine. I don't think they would let me into the stadium. 'Cause I think I'm Yeah, exactly. All right, man. It was a pleasure as always. See ya. Marc Winter (32:32) You did the washer tomorrow. Sounds good. All right, dude. See ya. That was nice. I like that one. Paul (32:40) Mm-hmm.