Your Thoughts Are Already Telling You Everything | Ep 47

Marc (00:00) welcome to guys like us. if you're new to this podcast, this is the podcast about all the things that you start thinking about when you know you're amid life, when you're in your prime, when you're imaginative, when you're thinking about all the things that life has to offer you. I'm joined here today by a very, very special guest, Dr. Yasmin Sad, who is An entrepreneur, a distant relative, which is also kind of a fun fact. One of New York's top three psychologists raved by at USA Today. And we're really, really excited to welcome you here. But before we get to that, I'm your host, I'm Mark Winter. I'm based here in New York. I'm a entrepreneur, I'm a father of two. ⁓ and I'm also joined here in Vienna by Paul. Paul (00:45) Hey, hey, Smith. So nice to have you and see you. Hey, Mark. Yeah, I'm Paul joining you guys from Vienna, Austria. A former executive, become entrepreneur, father of three, divorced, a lover of rabbit holes, amongst others, as you know, because we recorded an episode on therapy and everything you can do to work on yourself and discover yourself. So I'm extremely excited about this episode today. Marc (01:10) Two. So welcome Yasmeen. How are you? Dr. Yasmine Saad (01:13) I'm great, thank you for having me. I'm very excited about this conversation. Marc (01:18) Likewise, likewise. So when I reached out to you, you know, I I think I shared with you that we had we had done an episode already kind of on on therapy and and with the intention of opening up and kind of de removing the stigma that I think many men have around what it means to go to to to therapy and why you should seek help. But ⁓ before we kind of get into that, I thought I would just love for our listeners to hear a little bit about you and your journey and and kind of what's your unique take, I think, in this space and field. Dr. Yasmine Saad (01:50) ⁓ okay. So my unique take in this space and field. So I approach things a little bit differently than most psychologists because I believe that every thought, every emotion you have, everything happening in your life is has a message for you and carries your own blueprint. It carries your present state, desire future, obstacle along the way. So coming to therapy for me, for a man who wants to come to therapy is not necessarily a vulnerable aspect. is a discovery act. It's discovering who you are. And so you will expand a bit your knowledge about yourself and you'll find shortcuts for what you desire. Marc (02:34) Mm-hmm. When you say discovery, that's already kind of a cool paradigm shift, I think. So so you're removing the stigma of vulnerability and more kind of the invitation to learn about who you are and why you feel that way. Is that right, Ev? Dr. Yasmine Saad (02:44) That's right. Correct, correct. I think there's a bit of misconception about that therapy, when you go to therapy, you're gonna be vulnerable, you're gonna reveal the dark part of yourself or you're gonna show someone some weaknesses. And it's true that certain therapists do that and you know, some people and especially men don't want that, but it's not always the case. Like the way I work and my team work is very much about you're unique and we all have strength and weaknesses and the point is not being vulnerable. The point is to discover, you know, what what makes you you and to discover what you're here for and to discover what you can enhance about yourself. So it's all about discovering who you are and in that place there's no judgment. There's no vulnerability really. There's the gift of you. Paul (03:49) But I wonder, I love the framing, but I wonder if on the path of discovering yourself, you know, maybe being vulnerable is one of the things you, you ought to be, or you have to dare to be to get there. Or what does it take to discover then? Sounds so easy. Dr. Yasmine Saad (04:08) I think I think well, first, you know, when people say vulnerable, already it has a little bit of a negative connotation. That means I have to soften, I have to show some areas that are not so strong about myself. So already it's about exposing something. You know, and that is very hard. That already, like, if you tell me that about myself and I don't know you, and I'm like, do I want to do that? Why would I wanna do that? Why like it's already so why is that the path? So I do not believe it is a necessary path. Absolutely not. I believe that when you understand your thoughts, your emotion, what's happening in your life, you actually are empowered. Because you realize, wow, okay, yes, I have this desire for this. And right now I have this obstacle, but you don't feel vulnerable because of the obstacle you have within you or the beliefs you have within you. You understand why they're here, where they're coming, what they're serving, you see the whole picture and you see how it's all coming together. So I don't believe there's a need for vulnerability. in the way people talk about it. You know? So it's a different paradigm shift, totally different. Marc (05:27) Mm. Well, it speaks to me in a lot of things because vulnerability to me is a connotations weakness, right? For many, right? To be vulnerable means that I have to but the reframe, I guess, of of strength through self discovery, is that what it is? Because at the outcome of that is control, I suppose, right? Is what you're what you're saying. Dr. Yasmine Saad (05:52) Awareness, not control, awareness. Like the idea is the goal is 360 awareness, and when you have 360 awareness, you have total acceptance. And when you have total acceptance, you have agency again. So it is agency, not control. The reason why I'm correcting the word control, because control has a connotation of manipulation. Marc (05:54) Awareness. Dr. Yasmine Saad (06:19) in it. As a connotation of I am gonna control this situation which puts you in a power position of being either powerless or powerful. Marc (06:20) Mm. Dr. Yasmine Saad (06:32) And it's not what we want in life. In life we are both powerless and powerful at the same time, depending the situation depending. So what you want is a three hundred sixty awareness so that okay, I totally understand what I'm feeling, what I'm feeling. It makes total sense. Now I have agency to change it, move it, you know, I see where I'm going, that is not the best for me, I see where I'm going, that is good for me, and I'm at peace. I have total acceptance and agency. Paul (07:04) I love that. mean, that speaks to me a lot. was the point where many things changed for me. Not that I'm always very good at accepting everything, to be honest, that is around me, but it also reminds me of something. And I wonder how you think about this. I find it always very hard to find the balance between ⁓ acceptance and resignation. In a sense, right? So we are here on this world to, X and I also believe things are happening for us and not to us. They're happening for us. And this, and life is really about, you know, accepting those things that come with the beauty and the challenge and everything about it. it feels so powerless in the end, but the power is actually in accepting it. find finding that balance, and actually Marc (07:28) Mm. Paul (07:50) Giving yourself to life as an active act is, I think, hugely interesting And does that resonate to you? Dr. Yasmine Saad (08:01) A hundred percent. A hundred percent. Now I often get this idea that ⁓ sometime it makes you feel powerless, sometimes it makes you feel resigned. ⁓ but it it's not actually the case. And I give this example. I'm gonna give it quickly for you guys and the audience. It's imagine you have two children who are born with the same mother. Paul (08:18) Please, yeah. Dr. Yasmine Saad (08:25) One child is ⁓ very competitive, very competitive from early on. Like the mom criticized the child and the child's like, I'm gonna do better. I'm gonna go and I'm gonna do better. And the other child is more of ⁓ a sweet soul, you know, like one with a mom, very loving, very caring, only wants love in the world. And so the mom criticizes the child and the child then takes it on, I'm such a bad child, I'm so horrible, and beats on them. Marc (08:30) Mm. Dr. Yasmine Saad (08:55) So now that second child in life becomes depressed, the first child become competitive, successful, same parent, same thing. And so a lot of people will say, ⁓ but then that The second child and the first, they're both powerless to who they are, right? They're powerless. They're like kind of ⁓ moved by who they are. And what I say is that's exactly the point that when you become aware, you suddenly have agency. Like imagine that second child. If that second child comes to therapy and is being told Marc (09:28) Mm-hmm. Hmm. Dr. Yasmine Saad (09:34) You know, you're somebody pure who wants love. Based on your behavior, I can see that you desire love and pure. So what you do when somebody criticize you is you take it and beat yourself on it because you don't want to hurt another person, because the bond person is more powerful. Now that child now has agency to act differently or to accept, but now all the realm of possibilities are open. Marc (09:48) Mm. Dr. Yasmine Saad (10:02) There's no more resignation. That's where awareness brings agency. Same with the first child. The first child when you tell him, You're someone who's a fighter. You will fight through life. So the more criticism, the more you'll make something good out of it. But now what would you do when there's no fight? And suddenly you expand the awareness and you give that child agency. Paul (10:22) Mm. Dr. Yasmine Saad (10:26) So you see that's that's that's that is what the therapy I propose and I offer. That is about awareness that brings you agency. So there's no resignation, there's actually more possibilities. Marc (10:38) This is crazy. You know, it's funny. I ⁓ Hearing that methodology is ⁓ it's something I'm actually doing implicitly in my own practice, funny enough, when it comes to A AI actually. Is because agency is a big thing that I'm advocating for, right? Like it's like this, you can make ⁓ as leaders, you can feel like this technology is happening to you, right? And and you resign to it, et cetera. Or like you Dr. Yasmine Saad (11:02) Yes. Marc (11:06) Build awareness of all the different types of possibilities. I'm using your language, right? Of what could be true. Right. So then you can start to make choices about or wean into like the the future that you want, right? And some stuff, you know, is gonna happen that you don't you can't say no to. But at least you're aware that it's actually gonna happen, right? And then you can move forward. Dr. Yasmine Saad (11:26) That's right. And awareness is key. That kind of awareness. Paul (11:31) Yeah, no, I'm just so curious. I'm going to ask. And now we have, you know, we said last time, right? I calling him from Vienna, the home of many of the things that, you know, where lots of this stuff started and into New York talking to one of the top three, you know, psychotherapists and psychologists in New York is amazing. So I wonder, how do you get to the awareness? I mean, what's the path? There's so many things. You know, I mean, go into your office, I sit on the couch and we talk for an hour and then everything's good. Obviously not, but so what is it? You know, how do you get there? What's the methodology? Dr. Yasmine Saad (12:07) So, you know, I created a particular method. I call it the inner message approach, which is ⁓ you know, a a combination of different things that have been out there in the field. But it's the idea that You are already have the information that you need to access awareness through your thoughts, your emotions, your reactions, your behavior. So for example, ⁓ I did this in my TEDx. if you have a thought of I'm not good enough, that thought, if you ask yourself, what is the thought calling my attention to? you will know that it's calling your your attention to your self esteem, right? So you already know that there's something within you pulling towards you figure out your self esteem. ⁓ You also know that you're not saying I'm good in certain things, not good at others. You're saying I'm not good enough. That means you're making your whole identity negative. Paul (13:02) Mm-hmm. Marc (13:02) Fatherway. Dr. Yasmine Saad (13:15) So I know now that you're somebody whose mind is binary, black and white. Or you make you erase the whole foundation of who you are. All the good is gone. It's just you're not good enough. Why would anybody do that? Most people beat on themselves to move forward. Like, why did I do this? So that you do it better. I should not have done that. I'm so not good enough. Or people say, ⁓ I'm so not good enough to be resigned. But the way you say it to yourself shows you the purpose for you. So if you say, ⁓ I'm so not good enough, that is a resignation. That is, you desire to abandon fight. If you say, I'm so not good enough, then you are like, kick yourself in the butt to move forward. Marc (14:13) Hmm. Dr. Yasmine Saad (14:14) So one thought, I already know that your area of growth right now is self-esteem. Second, I know you have a binary mind and you're willing to really destroy the foundation of who you are. So you're willing to endure pain. You have a stamina for pain, either for growth, push forward, or resignation. One thought I already know this about you. You can do it for yourself. You have ten thousand thoughts a day. Do you imagine the amount of awareness you can have about yourself? Marc (14:48) That's an idea. Paul (14:48) So that is an idea. then I guess it's you would send me home with homework to say, note your thoughts, write them down somewhere. What are the sentences you tell yourself in your mind? And then we'll talk about it again. How does that go? I mean, how do we access that stuff that is going on in my head? Dr. Yasmine Saad (15:09) Yes. So the I usually I don't like to give people homework unless that's your preferred that's your preferred mode of operating. But first you're introduced to the idea. Then once you get the idea, the steps are very simple. What is the thought calling my attention to? You know? Like again in my TEDx I give another example. You come home from work and you're so frustrated with the dishes being dirty. Paul (15:15) I don't like homework either, so that's great. That's a good start. Dr. Yasmine Saad (15:38) Okay. What is the thought calling your attention to? You're gonna tell me the dirty dishes. I'm gonna tell you, okay, yeah, but go a bit deeper. Why are the dirty dishes so frustrating to you? And then you might tell me, because I had such a long day at work. The last thing I want is do more work. Okay, so now the thought is calling our attention to your life of hard work. That's what needs to be work. That's what you're frustrated. You're frustrated that your life is all about work. It's not about the dishes. It's about that the fact that your life is unbalanced towards work. Somebody else will tell me something totally different. Somebody else will say, It's so unfair. I work all day long, my spouse does nothing, and I come home and the dishes are not clean. And now Paul (16:12) Hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm. Dr. Yasmine Saad (16:35) the frustration is about fairness and balance with your spousal relationship. In two seconds. Once you know that, you don't need like you can do it yourself. I guarantee you after this conversation you're gonna do it with ease. Paul (16:48) Mm. Marc (16:50) So it's kind of interest you're getting you're unpacking well, two things ⁓ and I I seen you Vive and one epiphany I always had when when I was watching you is the importance of vocabulary because you use two different things, like like frustration and anger, right? Like they're different things. Yeah, they're they're they're they're related, yet really different. And I feel like success for this methodology also requires ⁓ the right vocabulary to connect it to that emotion, right? If that makes sense. So so I'm feeling anger because of the dishes, right? But I could also be feeling frustrated, you know, frustrated that they're not done. It's a kind I guess it's a mix. How do I know which which emotion to choose and then unpack and go deeper around? Dr. Yasmine Saad (17:36) I think you have to first be able to label a thought or an emotion. So that's where Paul was talking about, right? He was saying, Do you have me go home and write down my thoughts? Some people never think about their thoughts, right? So you do have as a first step to realise what is the emotion I'm feeling and what is the thought I'm having. That's the first step. And but that I don't think is so so hard. Marc (17:41) Mm. Dr. Yasmine Saad (18:02) Because you can access sadness, frustration. Now, what you're asking, Mark, is is it anger or is it frustration? You're already going too much into detail, and that's what a lot of smart people do. Like I train psychologists all day long, and I tell them one thing: You went too far already. I just was on the big umbrella. We went way too far. Like the method is so simple. Like, go big, go big. So frustration and anger is the same. is the s is on the same continuum, it's about intensity. So Marc (18:35) Mm-hmm. Dr. Yasmine Saad (18:37) usually they're all about unmet desires. You get frustrated or angry when y your desire is unmet and something within you is calling you to change that. You're moving towards action. Because anger pushed towards movement, action. So you won't know that yourself, right? You won't know that yourself. You will need, you know, to listen to some of my content to know a little bit more about anger. But you can if you decode like the my dishes example, you'll understand you can after you ask yourself what is the thought, the emotion calling your attention to, you can ask yourself, okay, what is my unmet desire? And in two seconds you'll get into fairness, less work. You will get to start. Paul (19:27) So it's actually about keeping it simple. Don't overthink your thoughts in a sense because it's actually the big pointers are there. Doesn't matter whether it's frustration or anger. And what role does the body play in all of this and your sensations? Because in my own experience, I was always, I thought quite good in reflecting on what I think and do, but it really changed how Dr. Yasmine Saad (19:39) That's right. Marc (19:46) ⁓ Paul (19:56) I had an implemented change when I also started to feel more, to really kind of look at what anger does to me. And you also kind of catch yourself earlier when you train or I trained myself somehow to feel, when this funny feeling in my belly comes, that's usually a sign that something is triggered. Yeah. You better take a step back and breathe before you your mouth again. So, so how do you think about that? Dr. Yasmine Saad (20:25) Okay, what you're describing is connecting to your body as a way of connecting to yourself. Because we're often disconnected from the body. So you tune into the body to discover what you're feeling because your body always communicates to you. So that's what you're describing. Some people have the reverse, they're so connected to their body that they need to go into thinking instead. Because what we want is balance. Paul (20:53) couldn't imagine. Very foreign to me that idea, but great. It's amazing to know that. Sorry to interrupt, that's... Whoa! ⁓ Marc (20:59) Yeah, yeah. Dr. Yasmine Saad (21:04) But there is, you know, imagine you are somebody who feels other people and don't have the word for it. You're gonna feel it in your body. You're gonna you know, you're gonna be next to someone who's so angry, you're gonna have a pit in your stomach. You you're gonna feel things in your body so much that that pit in the stomach is gonna bother you so much, the only way is gonna be to go to your mind to analyze, process, distance yourself. But But the idea, the main idea is that everything you feel and think has a repercussion on your body. And everything going on in your body has a repercussion on how you think and feel. So, for example, let's say we all know that when you're anxious, you have tendency to get butterfly in your stomach. It's a common expression. We all know that anxiety affects stomach. And there's a lot of things that happen that you know that you haven't connected the dots. For example, let's say I'm about to have a great meal. I'm hungry, I'm about to have a great meal. And then I get a phone call that my mother passed away. Marc (22:19) Right. Dr. Yasmine Saad (22:21) My appetite is shut in a second. So that means that your digestive system is not only digesting food, it's also digesting thoughts, emotion, and events. Marc (22:24) Totally. Totally. Huh. Huh. Fascinating. It's very simple, right? It's a it's a it's very queer when you say it. Well, I was gonna go, yeah, as mean, just you know, ⁓ you you kinda distilled a lot of your methodology ⁓ already for us. And I'm also thinking like for our audience alone and also just guys like us, I guess, you know, who are in their forties and and so on, I'm just curious, like what do they most wrestle with in this moment in time typically, you know, when they come to you? Dr. Yasmine Saad (23:05) So there's usually two domains. One is relationship and the other one is professional life. So Paul (23:11) Mm. Marc (23:14) Shocking. Paul (23:16) Hehehehehe Dr. Yasmine Saad (23:19) And so there's two phases with the relationship. Most of the time it's a relationship with a significant other, with a partner, with a significant others. And most of the time it's about you are two phases in that. You have the phase of okay, is this person the right person for me? Am I gonna move forward towards marriage? You know, am I am I gonna be compromising here? Is this the person I want to spend the rest of my life with? So usually at that age you either are in this stage of figuring out, is she the one? And your mind goes back and forth with wandering. You know, should I compromise? Should I not? But if I break up I will lose this, but this is not so good. And you are ping ponging. Or you're on the other side of it. You have realized, okay, I find the person or you've decided to compromise, whichever way it was. You're living with it. Paul (24:21) Accepting Marc (24:22) You made your choice. Exactly. Okay. Got it. And you're living with it. Yeah, Paul (24:28) not resigned exactly. Marc (24:29) yeah, exactly. Okay. Dr. Yasmine Saad (24:33) then there's more. Then you get married, you have children, and then you have to renegotiate this relationship with your partner, who's suddenly now way much more connected to the child. You might feel a little bit outside or not. You might feel like tense that you want to spend time with your child. And cannot because you have to provide and you feel torn while reworking your own relationship to your parent and what it was like when you were a kid and what it's like for you to be a father now. So all of this is happening while you're navigating. So that's the personal journey on the relationship front. And so depending where you're coming, you will be at one of those. Marc (25:07) Right. Dr. Yasmine Saad (25:18) Now professional life. And that's why, you know, I say, you know, everybody's going through so much all the time. Professional life. Now professional life, the first thing is you figure out what you like, what you don't like. 'Cause the reality you don't know, you you start in the workforce, you're like, How do I deal with difficult personalities at work? Marc (25:26) Yeah, of course. Go on. Dr. Yasmine Saad (25:45) How do I deal with being micromanaged or bossed around or have the total freedom? How do I deal with a job that I'm not passionate about? Do I go find something that passions me or do I just provide for myself where I am? You're gonna be figuring out the continuum between happiness, desire, stability, finances. Do you believe that you can have it all? You have it all in your job. And so you're gonna be thinking about all those things. And then once you have evolved to another level, then it's gonna be managing people. Who are you as a manager? What kind of human being? What are your fears? What do you trust? How do people experience you? How do you feel about the way people experience you? Paul (26:16) Mm-hmm. Marc (26:39) Yep. That transition's very real. Paul (26:42) And I wonder, do you feel that, know, people, patients come to you with, you know, a certain challenge in their life? And obviously there's a trigger and there's a question that too I'll ask it later. But, and then the whole journey ends up somewhere completely different and they are surprised by where it actually ends up or where this maybe comes from. You know, you start in one field of your life, the dishes if you want, then you come back to your, you know. to the example of the mother and in order to kids that you just described. How does that? Is that a frequent thing? Dr. Yasmine Saad (27:19) So you're asking two questions. One question is do you start somewhere and are you going somewhere that's surprising? A hundred percent. Because as a client, a patient, you're coming with one problem, but I know that that problem is just the leave on the branch. And the branches connect to a trunk and the root and in and Paul (27:42) That's such a Marc (27:42) Mm. Paul (27:42) nice way of saying the tip of the iceberg. I really have to remember that. Marc (27:45) Yeah. ⁓ Dr. Yasmine Saad (27:48) And and and it also it's also like you're gonna come and tell me I have this relationship issue with my wife or my partner and I have this thing at work and have all those things going on and I will tell you, Okay, but that's really one thing because the root is your relationship to conflict. That's the root. And it's just showing up in all those areas, but it's just one. So So yes, the element of surprise because you think you have all those things and the way I work is just no, we're we're gonna go like there's one trunk. You're just showing me all the leaves on the branches. And for you there's hundred leaves and so much we have to do for me, there's one trunk. We gotta stabilize the trunk. Marc (28:33) Hmm. You know. Paul (28:34) Hmm. Sorry, there was a second question I asked that Dr. Yasmine Saad (28:34) But the other Paul (28:38) I wasn't aware, so let's go. Dr. Yasmine Saad (28:41) question you're asking is do we have to go to our past? Because the way you describe it is do you do you always like then go to the why, the parents and that? And I will tell you that's one of the biggest obstacles to therapy is people coming and telling me, just don't ask me about my childhood. Don't ask me about my parents. I had a good childhood. I don't want to go there. I have a problem with work. Don't go there. Paul (28:47) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Dr. Yasmine Saad (29:11) And I'm like, we don't even need to go there. If you go back to what I said, it's already with you in your thoughts and your emotion. I don't need to go to childhood. I kind of already know. So I don't need that. It's not necessary. Now I would say 70% of the psychologists do go to the past and the childhood, and because that's the training. but it is changing. ⁓ but it is not necessary, and that's the new paradigm shift. Paul (29:41) I think that's huge. me that, I obviously went to the 70%. You know, to me it is what gave me comfort and agency. And I really feel that when you tell that story is for me to understand where things come from. I think men typically are very head heavy and I'm a specimen of that and a good example. So to me, I liked... Marc (29:44) Does that give you comfort or not? Paul (30:11) having reasons of why I felt in a certain way. And if that reasoning goes back to certain things that happened or didn't happen in my childhood, it made me feel that I understand this and now that I can deal with that and now can handle, you know, now it's mine. So I liked going there because it gave me a better understanding. So I didn't mind to answer your question, Mark. I wonder, obviously going through that, if I could have done it without going there. But I guess it's different for every person. Dr. Yasmine Saad (30:41) It's different for every person and you point to something ⁓ that makes a lot of sense is you're somebody who feels powerful when you have agency and you have agency when things make sense. So you'll be somebody who's very uncomfortable when things don't make sense, when you don't know and you're not aware. So if you were in therapy with me, I would work on Paul (30:55) Yes. is. Marc (31:05) Busted. Dr. Yasmine Saad (31:10) The area that you have not yet mastered in your life, because I'm sure you mastered the arts of awareness, making sense, and agency. You haven't mastered feeling fully safe in the world, not understanding, not connecting the dot, and not having agency. So when that will show up in your life. It will create uncomfortable feeling. So now you see, I know exactly who you are, I know your talent, I know your strength, I know how beautiful human being you are, I also know what will make you vulnerable, and I'm gonna work on removing that. That's the idea. We're gonna make you more internally free. Paul (31:51) Jasmine, know, as luck has it, I'm gonna be in New York in two weeks' time. ⁓ And I'm gonna call you up on this. I'm excited. I'm really excited. That sounds amazing. Marc (31:55) Yeah. ⁓ ⁓ I w I wanna be internally free. I I am hearing you you talk out loud and actually also ⁓ speaking about the the needs of of men in their forties when they come you to like or or what the questions they're they're asking themselves. You know, it is it's the heart it makes me wonder, is the heart of all therapy identifying unmet needs or the unmet need? Dr. Yasmine Saad (32:30) Most therapists will tell you not at all. So most there's different types of therapy, but the most common one is identifying patterns you have. And then those patterns would be it according to psychodynamic therapy would be kind of dynamics ⁓ the way you are with people, yourself and everything. According to cognitive behavior therapy, those patterns would be ways of thinking. According to dialectical behavior therapy would be the way you regulate your emotion or you ⁓ manage your distress tolerance. So most of the therapy is about identifying the inner pattern you have. Marc (33:02) Hmm. Dr. Yasmine Saad (33:20) My inner message approach is a little bit similar except that like we're gonna get to the pattern, but I start with the messenger is already on its way. Let's figure out what it's trying to tell us because everything within you is already working to show you what you need to get to your next level. If you think of the thought I'm not good enough, that thought is coming for you to pay attention to your self-esteem so that you upgrade that so that you go to your next level. So everything is already in its way. So it's all about decoding. That's why my approach is about decoding the messages that are coming through your body, your mind, your emotion, your behavior. Marc (33:52) Mm. Hmm. Dr. Yasmine Saad (34:09) Because it's already on its way. You have an operating system that's so powerful between your mind and your body. And so I see everything as ally, not enemy. Most people think of the body as an enemy and the mind as an enemy. It is not the case. It's constantly rooting for you. Paul (34:30) Hmm. Marc (34:30) That's that's quite a a powerful message, ⁓ Yasmin, I think. And actually the the ally ideas, so ⁓ to bring the body and mind working more thoughtfully in concert through through awareness and agency feels like a beautiful message. ⁓ you know, before before we wrap on this, this time at least, you know, when we we had a conversation about a little bit of almost two months ago. go now because you know we we were talking a little bit about ⁓ the impact of technology and AI. This does feel like really uncertain times. And so I can imagine you know beyond the more traditional like relationship and career paradigms that you're that you're dealing with, I imagine there they're there's the anxiety feels quite piqued. And I I think you you had a a really interesting way of decoding this moment. I think for people kind of walking through your doors and would you would you mind sharing kind of kind of at a top line level what you're seeing out there as it relates both to the technology and this moment and and people's finding their place in the world? Dr. Yasmine Saad (35:45) Yes. Yes. So what's happening right now with AI is everybody's questioning who I am if I can be replaced by AI. Who am I if I'm not working the way I'm working? Because most of us right now are built around productivity. You feel good because you're productive. You do a task, you check it, you feel you accomplish. Paul (35:50) you Dr. Yasmine Saad (36:10) So now that you don't need to be this producing machine, then who are you? So there's a crisis of identity. And a little bit to showcase the journey, ⁓ and I think that's a bit what you were pointing at, we've been on a journey for a while now, but let's start with COVID. The journey has been COVID was Marc (36:16) Yes. Dr. Yasmine Saad (36:36) I'm gonna stripe you from everything that makes you feel good. If going to the gym makes you feel good, gone. If hanging out with your friend makes you feel good, gone. And who are you now without those external things that make you feel good? And it really brought a mirror onto people's life for them to see. Marc (36:43) Mm-hmm. Mm. Dr. Yasmine Saad (37:03) What is working, what's not working, your relationship with your spouse, your living arrangement, the way you would commute to work, the way you are with yourself. And some people crashed because they were so reliant on the external and they rebuilt and it was a new identity, an upgrading identity that started. And when COVID was done ⁓ Marc (37:26) Interesting. No, no, no. Interesting. No, keep going. So from COVID to what? Dr. Yasmine Saad (37:32) And then after COVID, right, when COVID was done, people had a craving for interpersonal, right? It was a craving again to hang out, or it was like, ooh, I'm not so comfortable with you anymore, right? It was difficult. And the paradigm sheaf was others might not be as safe as you think. We had in US the black. Marc (37:45) Sorry. Paul (37:55) Mm-hmm. Dr. Yasmine Saad (37:58) Black Life Matters. The we do, which means like who you are at the core carries racism. Who you are at the core carries hurt towards women. And people are dangerous to each other. So what it did, it brought an awareness. You think you're gonna rely for others for balance, soothing and everything. Be mindful. Be aware. And then so it removed layers and layers of safety for people because relationship protection was where people go. And so where did they went next? Politician systems education. And suddenly you start having everywhere in the world politicians in power. who were out of balance who you could not rely on. And suddenly that rug got pulled underneath you again. So what is happening is the things that are external to us that you rely on for safety, for security are being pulled. So that what is left? Your own identity, your own inner work, your own self-sufficient system. After the politician, the politics, what came? Paul (39:22) Hmm. Dr. Yasmine Saad (39:26) AI. What does AI do? AI replaces you in terms of your ability to ⁓ work. Like the people again, as I said, if you had a self-esteem based on performance, suddenly that self esteem is gone. So you're forced to rebuild it on something else. Marc (39:40) Yeah. Yep. Dr. Yasmine Saad (39:52) Which would be your unique traits and who you are. And that's the work and that's the paradigm shift that people have to do now. But we've been on an evolution of removing reliance on the outside so that we build the inside and become powerful self. Now most people won't see it that way. Marc (40:14) Well, I I think it's a it's a powerful message to to close and I think it's a it's a really interesting take, like on historical take. I think of this of the dismantling of our safety mechanisms, right? I guess through I mean, through ⁓ for many at least, like how they see their neighbor, how they see their institutions, how they see their politicians, how they see technology, right? And I think ⁓ it it calls for strengthening ⁓ The inner core, right, to to to withstand that the next wave of change 'cause ⁓ something tells me it's gonna be ⁓ a bumpy few years, to say the least. ⁓ Paul (40:49) Hmm. Dr. Yasmine Saad (40:52) Yeah, I think it's bumpy because there's attachment to security on the outside. The more you believe that you need protection, you need system, you need you need structure, you need the outside, then you're gonna feel very unsafe in the inside and you're gonna insist on the outside being structured and peaceful and that will make your journey bumpy because it would not be there's a dismantling of system on the outside happening right Paul (41:25) What a way to close, because in the end, think is a perfect loop to where we were in the beginning is understanding and also accepting. We were talking about acceptance versus resignation. And I think this is the perfect example and the use case for that. When you are also accepting and understanding why this challenges you, you can actually move on and navigate this world that is You know, a VUCA world and crazy and changing all the time in a much more, I guess, gentle way. It's not so bumpy. Beautiful. Thank you. Dr. Yasmine Saad (42:03) Pleasure. Thank you Marc (42:03) Thank you, Yasmin. Dr. Yasmine Saad (42:04) for this wonderful conversation. So nice. Marc (42:06) Really, really appreciate Paul (42:07) It's really nice. Thank you. Marc (42:07) it. So lovely to have you. Thank you. Paul (42:11) Alright. Marc (42:12) Wow. So that was our that was an interesting guest, don't you think? Paul (42:17) Dude, totally. I really love this and I really love the end. I can tell you my top three takeaways. I kind of thought about this in the last couple of minutes. Number one, I liked the simplicity of it. And that almost comes across, especially when you're in a podcast, like a party pooper. There's no magic in there. It's very simple. All the answers are there already. They're also easy to find. Marc (42:40) Yeah. That means it's hard. Paul (42:43) You just, you don't need to let your pants down. It's all there. Just fucking do it. I love that. And I loved how she explained, you know, to me, what I always find so difficult to explain that middle ground between, you know, kind of lying down before life and just having the wave sweep over you versus actually just riding those waves. And she did a fantastic job at that. So, and then the third one, how that connects into all of the change that we see in the world. So really cool. Marc (43:11) Yeah, I love that last bit. And for me the message I'm taking is awareness brings agency. And I think that's just that's really thoughtful and really cool. ⁓ speaking of awareness, ⁓ Terminators and Idiots of the Week. ⁓ Paul (43:27) I know what your terminate is gonna be. It's gonna be the Knicks. Marc (43:30) dude, it's no, it's also dude, dude. No no, it's both. I'll just start off. So of course, who turned off the game yesterday? Me. I Paul (43:35) All right, Okay. That is idiotic. Fair enough. Marc (43:46) And I was I was in bed. I was like, the kids are gonna get up early, the next are getting killed. It's fourth quarter. I was like, and it's funny, I was looking at my phone, it went down to nine points, and I was like, fuck, I have to turn it on, right? And then it bumped right back up to fifteen point deficit. I was like, okay, they're done. Right. And I was like, shit. And then I went to sleep, woke up, and of course missed the comeback of the biggest comeback in history. So anyway. Idiot. Paul (44:11) All right. Maybe, you know what, I'll do the same today, and my terminated at of the week. was yesterday invited to a very special ⁓ birthday party. party under the motto of fearless generosity and joy, and it was beautiful. And it was really fearless because with the... A lot of guests, he tried things that don't think people usually try on birthday parties to really spark their, yeah, to really tickle them a little bit, you know, out of their usual comfort zone. And one of the things that I thought was especially amazing was ⁓ the dinner, the main course was served on a very, very long table in almost darkness with a light installation and a guy making very, you know, trancey music to it. Marc (44:40) Okay. Paul (44:58) no word was spoken. Marc (45:00) Huh. That's cool. Wow. Wow. Paul (45:02) for about half an hour, silence. It was an installation. It was unbelievable. and then it was a lot of fun and party and music and DJ and that's the idiotic thing. I drank too much. I danced a lot. It was super fun though. That's my Terminator. And idiot. Marc (45:16) Well, those are great ones. And and look at us. We we we're Paul (45:20) Look at us! We don't suck! That's something for just me to analyze. Mark A pleasure. Ciao. Marc (45:23) We don't suck. That was a fun one. ⁓ see your pals. Lovely. Cheers.