Wearables, self-improvement or becoming a cyborg? | Ep 20

Paul Fattinger (00:10) Welcome to Guys Like Us. If you're new to this podcast, this is your podcast. When you reach that age where you are, you know, and we got to admit to that in midlife and we're going to talk about a real midlife topic today, I think. And not only about, you know, today it's not about family, it's not about leadership, it's not about relationships, it's not about friendships even. It is a little bit about fun nights out or actually the aftermath of it. Marc Winter (00:30) Please. Paul Fattinger (00:39) So, but yeah, in short, this is a podcast about all the things that shaped us and continue to shape us and move us. So we hope this topic is for you. And our topic today is about how we have an increasing tendency to measure our life with these beautiful wearables that we have. ⁓ we might be addicted to measurement and your host today are, you know, I'm going to start with myself so I can hand it over to Mark who is calling in from New York. How's it going buddy? Marc Winter (00:54) Or we might be addicted to measurement. We'll figure that. Hello, I'm good, I'm good. How are you? think you're in the middle of a crazy Monday, huh? Paul Fattinger (01:12) I am at the coming to an end of a crazy Monday, enjoying a glass of wine, which I have opened because we are talking as focus and I really needed it because it was a bit of a day. but yeah, I'm coming off a, a long party weekend, to be honest. ⁓ so I am still recovering or kind of jumping back on the wagon with this. Marc Winter (01:36) Or you're kind of slowly deaccelerating through one. What are you drinking? Paul Fattinger (01:39) With this beautiful, really nice, you know, Kiken Kiesel, Preising, I think we've had something like this before. You know this label, right? It's really nice and a very simple, straight... Marc Winter (01:48) I do, it's really good. That's a nice Monday wine, you know, an honest wine. Paul Fattinger (01:56) 11.5 % white, clean, beautiful. Really beautiful. Beautiful glass of wine. you guys, Klaus Breisinger, can also sponsor us. Thank you for doing that. And how about yourself? Marc Winter (02:10) I am being lame today buddy, because it's noon my time, so I'm having and enjoying a black coffee. ⁓ But I also had a heavy weekend. I would say it was awesome. Nice family weekend. I have to say, you know like, there's that moment where you have the meal, you have the wine, et cetera, and then the desserts come out, And we had like, my family had like four pies. Paul Fattinger (02:16) Here we go. How was Thanksgiving? Marc Winter (02:36) And some German Linzer Torte by the way, my aunt makes a nice Linzer Torte. Yes, sorry, yes. ⁓ I remind her from time to time of that. And it's just funny, like the decision with getting to our topic today, I was like, huh, you have enough wine. You already had two plates of turkey and mash and all that other stuff. And then there's like all the pies. And I think it's the highest calorie intake inside 20 minutes that you make a year. It's like. Paul Fattinger (02:39) Austrian. Marc Winter (03:05) Because you're like, you make the choice, you're like, that pie was fucking good. I'm going to try the next one. Because, know, it's Thanksgiving. So the whole point is to stuff yourself, right? And I was just thinking after I had four pieces of pie, because, and then followed by, of course, some schnapps digestif, I was like, my numbers are going to look amazing tomorrow, you know, when I wake up. Paul Fattinger (03:25) I had the same because I had a Christmas party on Friday after which I woke up and I thought I'm not gonna survive this weekend. And then I had a boys weekend actually. So I had a boys weekend coming up. Yes, I did on Saturday. And I thought exactly the same. And I actually had gone for dinner on Thursday. So I already woke up on Friday morning thinking I need to somehow get out of this Christmas party business because I don't know how to survive this. Marc Winter (03:39) No. Paul Fattinger (03:52) Um, and obviously my whoop was showing red numbers and all of that. And I was like, fuck me. So was really lying in bed. I was like, how maybe I should call in sick now. And it was like this. And by 2 PM I had a beer in my hands and I was told this this problematic skill that I have, um, that I can recover very quickly during the day. anyways, yeah. Marc Winter (03:57) Ha ha ha ha ha ha No, no, yeah. So you basically did an Olympic effort of celebrations, you know, from your Thursday to your Christmas party to your. Paul Fattinger (04:23) It was super fun. We had a really nice boys weekend. We're to talk about it later maybe, but I really enjoyed it and a really nice Christmas party as well. This was all good. It was really, really, you know, nice. I would need a weekend right now to recover like usually, you know, to actually to actually recover. But it was a really beautiful reconnecting weekend. Marc Winter (04:45) This is what he tells himself to your listeners. Right. And then we're going to hear next week. Then, you know, on Friday I cracked open, see drinks is glass. On Friday I cracked open a beer, you know, I needed it. And then, you you started again. Yeah. Paul Fattinger (04:57) You know, but the thing is, and I think that's kind of on topic is... I know because I have been tracking myself for a while with a whoop tracker that my ability to digest alcohol has decreased significantly over the past two and a half or three years ever since I had this tracker. And I know this because in the past, let's say two years ago, I could have Marc Winter (05:07) Mmm. Mm-hmm. Paul Fattinger (05:30) two to three glasses of wine and basically have no impact on my HRV and pulse and so on. Now I have, and if I had a brutal night out, I would see it. But a brutal night out would be brutal. But it's almost to the extent, I actually, have a theory now that every human has kind of a quarter of alcohol they can drink in their lives. And I'm done with my quarter. Marc Winter (05:39) Mm-hmm. Paul Fattinger (05:59) That's what I think is happening. It's like, I'm done. I've used it all by the age of 42. Like it's sickening how bad it is. But anyways, that's kind of the lead into today's topic of measuring ourselves. And you have been too, Mark, right? You have, what are you using? Marc Winter (06:03) my god. Yeah, well, so I, and you're a whoop and I'm an aura guy and I have to say, like I am so addicted to these, to this measurement thing. You when I wake up in the morning, the first thing I do is see what time it is and the second thing I do is check my aura score. It's like become that integrated into my life. And I've been doing it for about four years. Paul Fattinger (06:38) How long have you been doing it? Really? Marc Winter (06:46) And so, yes, a, very rarely am I a first mover on some kind of emerging tech, but a very kind of bleeding edge guy, actually in Germany, Michael Trautmann, you he always wears this leading stuff and he shows up at this cool ring and I was like, what the hell is that? He told me what it does. And at first I loved it just for sleep. And also, we should talk between that and the whoops, the bracelets and stuff like this. For me, it's so subtle and kind of sleek and I just needed for using it as a sleep tracker and now I'm using it much more for movement. Paul Fattinger (07:28) I don't think it's sad at all because you're wearing a ring that's huge, but that's kind of my opinion. I would never wear that, but... No, I'm like... ⁓ Marc Winter (07:33) Yeah, fair enough. ⁓ Actually, it has some side effects or side issues that I wouldn't report before because when it really starts to activate, it gets green, know, kind of on the inside, like the light shines when it's measuring and shit. Yeah, so like I was at this... Paul Fattinger (07:52) Mm. Mm-hmm. Marc Winter (07:58) Dance party, you know, for my friend's 50th in Athens, know, and suddenly it was dark and it was the club and you're dancing and suddenly it looks like I've got a green laser shooting out of my ring, which is funny. And it looks pretty cool. But it's also terrible when you pick up your one year old, ⁓ your one year old, you know, when he's crying in the middle of the night and you forget you have it on and he's like, what is this green thing shooting in my eye? So he's up for another hour. ⁓ Paul Fattinger (08:07) That's cool. So your gateway drug basically was someone else using it and you were like, that's cool. Same for me. Actually. Our friend Hans was using this whoop and I saw him that summer in, I think in 22. I was 22 already. It's not three and a half years that I've been using it now. Um, and I saw him there and, and I was like, that's cool. I want to try that because, uh, to me it was, I had an Apple watch before. And then also obviously several garments and stuff. Marc Winter (08:26) Yes. Yeah, that's right. Paul Fattinger (08:50) And I liked that they track things and I would have loved that they do sleep and other things, but I, I never wore them all the time for two reasons. Reason number one is you had to recharge them. I usually did that overnight so that here goes the sleep tracking and then, and then I would forget them because I had to charge them somewhere. Right. So I wouldn't wear them. And number three is that I think it looks funny to wear, ⁓ a, to wear an Apple watch. and a normal watch. And it was a time where I still wanted to wear a normal watch. Actually, someone told me today because we were talking about this, there's a thing called double-wristing. Marc Winter (09:31) Yeah. Paul Fattinger (09:32) which is awfully close to using something, know, double wristings. And I thought, okay, you can't wear like two screens almost like, know. And that's when I thought, this is great. I find this something. And the Garmin things they had before in the Fitbits, because they had this granny style kind of step tracker flair to them, which kind of sucked. So that's how I ended up with my whoop. Marc Winter (09:55) Look, yeah. It's fun, you know I feel like guys don't get a lot of jewelry And our watch is one of our few bits that that are like a way of us kind of yeah So giving that to Apple Apple is enough of my shit. You know So so that's enough Paul Fattinger (10:09) I agree, I agree. No, no, I fully agree. I fully agree. But the reason I hadn't done it before, because I think I kind of came, you know, I saw it maybe a year or so before that was because I was really kind of scared away by their subscription model. And I was like, in the beginning, it's crazy to pay like, I think it was 25 bucks or 30 bucks a month for a device forever, you know, instead of buying it once while now been doing this now, you know, my fourth year and I don't care anymore. It's pretty crazy how that shifts, right? And how they kept on somehow adding a value to my life that I'm still willing to pay. Marc Winter (10:54) Can I offer a transformation or mindset piece on these things? So I used to call them the king or queen of ⁓ inconvenient truths, you know and You know it means like ⁓ you party too hard or you you know it shows up in your scores or you're super stressed and you're like like shit, you know, but now we can quantify that right and Now I go that that's the from now. It's to what I'll call a central truth, know Things that the building blocks that I want to know Paul Fattinger (10:57) Yeah. Marc Winter (11:24) so I can structure my day to little bit healthier, understand what I'm dealing with, or how my body's feeling in more quantifiable ways. ⁓ It gives me the confidence very often to take on different tasks. For example, that I might not have done before. So for example, on Saturday, I ran a pretty aggressive one hour run. Not that bad, but the only reason why I decided to run that one hour run is because I woke up with like a 93, which almost never happens, you know? And it was a nice day, yeah, for me. Usually I'm the high eighties. Paul Fattinger (11:56) That's high. And that's the main score in Aura, right? That's your sleep score. What is that? Your recovery score or? Marc Winter (12:06) Well, you have a sleep and readiness score, you know? Paul Fattinger (12:08) And the readiness score was 93. Marc Winter (12:11) Yeah, and I was like cool fuck it like like like time to do a bigger run. You know versus the hiatus But it's just it's a nice kind of building blocks of what you're working what you have you know in the tank and Paul Fattinger (12:16) That never happens to me. But that's kind of bringing me a lot of people that don't do that yet. And then they see you with this, ask, so ever since you've used it, what has changed for you or what are you using it for? for you, right? You started this four years ago. What has changed? Marc Winter (12:43) ⁓ I would say behaviorally, I am absolutely much more focused on sleep and prioritizing that. And I am more conscious of when I'm eating and honestly like when I'm drinking, know, like I know what you're gonna be paying for, et cetera. And I would say from an activity level, Paul Fattinger (12:51) Yes, same here. Yes. Marc Winter (13:10) More than ever, it's like if I want to ensure fitness, I mean, it's not as accurate mind, but I want to ensure that I'm hitting some baseline of numbers a week. So, ⁓ you know, even when I have a lot on my plate, you know, I'm prioritizing, I say I might walk for, the extra versus bike, you know, and just to really move in. Yeah. Yeah. So Paul Fattinger (13:30) And that is because there is kind of a score in the Aura app that is kind of an activity level or something. Marc Winter (13:36) It speaks to the science of gamification and straight A students, and ⁓ type A personalities that we all have bits of that in us. And so it's just a behavior change tool. Actually, you hit on it. It's a behavior change tool. One of the great ones I've ever played with. Paul Fattinger (13:38) Yeah. Yeah, sure. You know, I, I, I have su- Yeah. So to me also, I think it's, is what you said is sleep. think about sleep way more often and more consciously and also, you know, about the things that actually influence sleep, right? mean, the biggest contributed to good sleep. And I listened actually to this podcast with this sleep scientist, British guy who also wrote the book. forgot the name, very famous book. was a recent, yeah, it this guy and a recent diary of a CEO episode. Actually he came on and Marc Winter (14:17) Why we sleep? Paul Fattinger (14:23) And it's the same thing as this whoop leading scientist said once is the number one contributor to good sleep is ⁓ bad and wake time consistency. And that's what it is. And in the end is if you go to bed every day at the same time and wake up at the same time, that's the biggest contributor to good sleep, which I think, and it measures this and that's kind of something that I really look out, have looked out for after that. And then it just to me shows you, as you said, the in Marc Winter (14:36) Hmm. Paul Fattinger (14:51) convenient truth that also two glasses of wine they matter and you do feel more shit and and and your score is worse and so on so so that's kind of ⁓ that's what really changed for me that i look after the things more and finally enough i always say people it it actually tells you things that you already know but that you kind of don't want to think about and it always puts your nose and your head into the you know into the Marc Winter (15:15) Yes. Paul Fattinger (15:21) shit a little bit you know it's like this is what you do and yeah. Marc Winter (15:23) Yeah. I mean I have friends who don't like those things because they're like I don't want to know like like I feel it already you know but I say like hey like that's actually the invitation to shift you know or change and you know depending what self Paul Fattinger (15:39) I spoke to a friend of mine also who said I've had it for a month, I sent it back because it stressed me out. And it's kind of maybe on the negatives of this. Do you think it can also make you kind of listen to your body less? In a sense, right? I because I almost like we joked once, it's like before someone asked me, how did you sleep? It's like, I don't know, let me check. Marc Winter (16:04) Yeah, that's so true. would say... Look, I mean, obviously we're both fans. I would say, I'm not sure it's 100 % accurate. And I will, but the psychological benefit I get sometimes of like, waking up feeling really tired, you know, as our listeners know, I've got two kids and some stress, we all stress at work. And you know, if you wake up feeling terrible, you're like, God, and then you have a better than anticipated score. Somehow that makes me think, okay, actually I'm not as fucked as I thought I was. Paul Fattinger (16:35) But does that happen more often like this or the other way around? Marc Winter (16:41) More often like that. Paul Fattinger (16:42) That's great. For me, no. For me, it's the other way. And that's why I have to say, sometimes it actually is, it's downing me more than that. I think because I'm like, actually I slept great. I look at my score and it's like fucking yellow. Like it's, you know, between 34 and 66%. And I'm like, why? And it really starts bugging me. And then I started thinking about what I should do better. So I do have, and I forget about it, you know, to be fair. Marc Winter (16:46) Really? Hmm. Paul Fattinger (17:11) After half an hour. Actually, it's fine. Who cares? And then I wonder, right? No, But so, yeah, for me, it's sometimes even more this way around. Marc Winter (17:12) Then he drinks another glass of wine and he's like, okay, actually it's fine, whatever. You you could argue and I want to throw just some brief stats for our Western show We're not we're not a crazy like there's this mega trend of biohacking which has gone mainstream right to just health tracking and even or ring as I think it's having a moment, know, they I just looked this up today, you know, they Sold over five point five million rings. Okay, it's not bad. But what's crazy is they sold two point five million rings since June 20th So basically within a year of this, it's insane, right? So they sold in just over a year what it took 11 years to build previously, right? And so it's like an 11, it's an $11 billion company. Whoop is, yeah, Whoop, which is 3.6 billion, so I think it's still private, right? But it's a crazy kind of generation, sorry, let's see, where is it here? Paul Fattinger (17:54) Wow, that's insane. That's an insane number. Yeah. Wow. Really? They have like a million subscribers or something, right? 1.1 million subscribers. I would have thought it's more, to be honest, somehow. It kind of shows the bubble we live in. Marc Winter (18:23) Yeah, Yeah, Paul Fattinger (18:32) Yeah, kind of shows the bubble we live in though, Could also say, right, kind of like the things we worry about is really that is like, it's almost a pinnacle of champagne shit, to be honest, right? This episode is absolutely about champagne problems and nothing else. Marc Winter (18:39) I mean, this is some champagne shit, dude. like... But, but... But, but... But, well, hold on. like, there's a trend that's worth talking about. Now that you have access to that type of data, right? We like to instrument ourselves. Or now that we have the ability to instrument ourselves and measure, etc. To me, I think this is really interesting. way to go because right now this is really measuring your sleep and your body, right? ⁓ Through temperature, through heartbeat, public movement, location, services, et cetera. Would you like one for cognition? If we really go deeper. Paul Fattinger (19:24) Yeah, man. And you know, you know that last year around this time of the year, I wore a glucose, a continuous glucose monitoring, you know, sensor for six weeks. know, it's, yeah, it's those little, you know, it's little patches that you put in on your, on your upper arm. And it measures, it constantly measures your glucose level. And obviously diabetes patients use this for them. And that's where it comes from is a great tool because you don't have to go and measure every time after you eat or before you eat. Marc Winter (19:38) Alright. Paul Fattinger (19:54) And ⁓ yeah, and then you see on an app, right? You see your blood sugar levels and how they react to the things you eat. And I had read a book like everyone did around these years about glucose goddess. was in what order you need to eat your foods and what it does. And I kind of got obsessed about it. I do remember now ⁓ and I'm laughing about it now because, it was to me also, I guess in the phase of where I had just gone out of a job. was another metric I could optimize. the only metrics I had left was my own body. There was no revenue to drive. So I drove my glucose that was down. was kind of a... So yeah, it could go into this direction. And you know those things now. mean, the latest, highest grade whoop they do, like all the others also are able to do blood pressure. Marc Winter (20:29) Ha ha! That's an insight. I love that. Paul Fattinger (20:49) ⁓ and then other readings. And so it's getting quite intense, I think, in terms of what they measure. And is that necessary, really? Marc Winter (20:58) Yeah, I mean... That's where it gets really interesting. I shudder at the idea, if this really goes where it probably can. If I had a deeper understanding, Mark, you're most creative between these hours. This is the time to be focused between this. ⁓ you have a lull, psychological lull. Send some stupid emails during this time for your work. I mean, it is interesting biohacking to really understand where you are as a human. Paul Fattinger (21:13) That would be awesome. Yeah. Marc Winter (21:30) navigating a day to day. And I shudder at this because I think the tendency to optimize really shuts down other corridors of thought, of movement, of thinking, right, as you're trying to get the most out of every minute, every second. We all know the power of Paul Fattinger (21:49) Yeah. Marc Winter (21:54) We were just talking about before we recorded just the power of dreaming and following a thought, know, and you know, could imagine if you could only do that because you were told, you know, you're most creative between, you know, 10 and noon. It's bullshit. Paul Fattinger (22:09) Yeah. You know, as I'm kind of thinking about it, to me, are, there's almost like two levels. The first level is, and usually that happens when you start with a thing. And I don't know if Aura has this, but Whoop has this thing also that you can basically have a diary of behaviors, right? And you can select out of a database of hundreds of behaviors that go from, did you have magnesium? Did you sleep alone in your bed? Did you use a blue light? Glasses, mean like literally everything and in the morning and you can select your you can select 202 that you want to fill out in the morning and then you can fill out You know or did I eat late at night? Did I drink alcohol if yes, how much did I have sex? Did I masturbate everything is there right and so then basically on a monthly assessment they start ⁓ They start giving you correlations. I just like Marc Winter (22:56) Jesus. Paul Fattinger (23:05) these behaviors, they contribute to a higher recovery or better sleep and these don't. And surprisingly, alcohol has a very bad correlation with the quality of sleep. And it's actually also the source. So in the very beginning, I did lots of that behavior tracking. So you can imagine now. it was once at work, actually. I don't know, but listen. No, no, no, no, I didn't. didn't. And in fact, I didn't. And in fact, actually, you... Marc Winter (23:28) And you took those insights and you flush them down the toilet. Paul Fattinger (23:34) Listen, they were so benign actually that alcohol isn't great for you. but the funny story was actually one day I wanted to show a friend at work, he was like, Hey, what is this? And then let me show you. I opened the Whoop app and he said, you had sex X time in the last month and it contribute and increased your sleep score by X percent. So that was actually, was like, okay, thanks for sharing this. In that very moment, was very, very passive, very appropriate. But so I think there is this, yeah, sorry. Marc Winter (24:05) You know, I bet, well no, just on the sex stuff, because it's always really funny, I bet, you know, can you imagine all the turnoffs people are getting? know, like, I assume that most sex happens in the evening, you know? And can you imagine as people start to optimize, you know, you're like, well honey, know, it's 9.15, yeah, exactly, exactly, or, you know, exactly, or really. Paul Fattinger (24:25) Listen, I really have to have sex now because my score has been terrible, you know? Marc Winter (24:32) I find you deeply attractive, but I think we're gonna perform best, you know, between 9am at 10 tomorrow. Yeah, I do better on eight and a half hours of sleep. Paul Fattinger (24:37) Let's wait for seven and a half minutes here. No, but what I wanted to say is like, I think there's kind of this deep dive phase with all of these devices where you actually study something and you get a, you really learn maybe also something new, right? And for me at least I started experimenting and say, okay, what happens with three glasses of wine? What with four? What with five? Marc Winter (24:56) Mm. Paul Fattinger (25:02) You know, is it really just the wine or should I just stop eating earlier? And that's better. That's actually a huge impact. But anyway, and so at one point you're kind of done with your experiments and then you're like, okay. And I'm still wearing it because what I really like about those things is that you always wear them and it gives you kind of this long-term view and you can look. And I think Wumper has a great way, I don't know about Aura, to show you the last six months and how do your main stats like your HRV and your resting hydrate develop. And you kind of see, ah, okay. And then you kind of think about, know, did I live healthy in the last month? Did I do lots of sports or did I not? And so I really liked that this kind of overall big picture measurement of, know, how are you doing? And, uh, and usually it shows you, think earlier in your stats than it, when you, then you feel it, that you haven't been, you know, doing so been so nice to yourself in terms of eating, drinking, doing sports and so on. Marc Winter (26:01) Yeah. Paul Fattinger (26:02) That's why I'm still into it. Marc Winter (26:05) You know, yeah, but I think the danger you're hitting on is is that living really? You know if you go really go on a full optimization? But you know are you just really becoming a cyborg in a way? You know it's it a It's an open question. You know like like live live your life as he drinks his glass of wine exactly like no, but I'm just jealous. That's it. I'm just jealous exactly Paul Fattinger (26:20) Yeah. the answer to it. The answer is this. Marc Winter (26:34) It's new and it looks good. ⁓ But I think, you know, obviously like everything in life, it's about balance, blah, blah. I, what you, the insights are useful. What you do with them, and clearly we're both acting on them in a powerful way. I do worry and see ⁓ other guys and girls for sure, who are wearing bands, optimizing, looking at every bit of data. to kind of maximize their presence on the planet. And the funny thing is, is while they're doing that, there's a whole life passing them by, which you never take a risk. never, okay, I'll make it real. see you have this startup out on the West Coast. I've never seen anyone more instrumented in my life. Like, like. Paul Fattinger (27:26) Really? Marc Winter (27:28) he's fully optimal. This is when I'm most focused when this is this is a you know goes running to keep up his daily goals Biking, you super active at work super focused on sleep super focused on diet Also in social calendars. It's like a social is good for me. So that's why I go out like this kind of freak and You know as I'm just thinking about that I was like man like what's it like to not take a risk on a night? because of how optimized you are, you know, it's it's Paul Fattinger (27:54) Yeah. Marc Winter (27:57) It's stripping out all the fun of being on this planet. Paul Fattinger (27:58) But you know, though, I would say that I guess those devices are more just another instrument to do that. I don't think there are an entry point into that kind of behavior. I think they're just another tool to kind of enforce this behavior. You know what I mean? I think no one gets, becomes like this because of an aura ring. You know, someone can be more freaky about it. Marc Winter (28:18) Yeah. Paul Fattinger (28:27) because he has an aura ring now. That's kind of where I'm at. The person you just described had a Garmin 10 years ago and now maybe wears an old time whatever the fuck monitor. I don't know. But I don't think someone gets so obsessed about their data because of exactly that device. I don't think that's true. Marc Winter (28:33) Yeah, it's. No, look, it's, it's, it, is an accelerant towards a tendency, right? Or like, actually, I thought what you said, which is really interesting about, you know, transitioning out of a CEO role to now being like, hello, you're like, this is the only thing I could measure and control, like, which is actually Paul Fattinger (29:03) I don't know. And I'm laughing about myself from a year ago because with enough distance, it's so apparent, it's so clear. And back then, I guess it was clear also to everyone else that it was close enough to me. And to me, I was like, no, why? This is totally normal. What the fuck? I would sit in front of my phone looking at how my blood sugar would develop after I had a croissant. It doesn't do well, by the way. It goes up very steeply. But yeah. Marc Winter (29:31) Self-help junkies. Anyway, this is great. By the way, would you take a job? So I think we're both, we should stress, none of us, ⁓ unfortunately, we're not being sponsored by any of these companies. But ⁓ obviously we're big fans. If I could even take a job there, ⁓ it would be one company I would consider working for. I believe in that mission so much, actually. I think they're cool. Or at least, I haven't tried to. Paul Fattinger (29:32) Yeah. I'm that's yeah. No. No. Dude, would, I always said so. would love to work for, I mean, I would, I think it's a great market. think also when used wisely, it is a great tool because I do really believe we have a huge advantage over our parents that we are so aware of those things. And it's just another tool that makes us, you know, stay aware of those things. And I think that's really awesome. Marc Winter (30:19) Which will make us extra idiots when we discard all that information and insights and keep going. ⁓ Paul Fattinger (30:25) It would kind of, right? It would. So I think it is amazing. And, and I think actually to me, I mean, I was really, I was like the last time the last feature that was released on my device, which was this whoop age, you know, it kind of showed you what is your real, you know, what they think is your biological, you know, the state of your body. I thought that was kind of the killer feature for every man over 40. Then you, you know, how, what's your whoop age? And then actually, in fact, like Every time I meet someone who has it is like the first question is like, what's your who page is like is yeah, that's the competitive thing now is Nikki. And mine is like six years. I used to be seven years younger than I am now. I'm only six years younger than I am. So I'm kind of getting, yeah. So my web page is 38, which is great. Yeah. Marc Winter (30:59) Really? That's freaky. what? And what is... my God. Wow. I've got to work on mine. I had a meeting. well, there you go. Well, you also aged. ⁓ I had a meeting and then I guess we can close, but I had a meeting with the marketing executive and she was lovely, a little older. We were just talking about how much we loved to order rings. Paul Fattinger (31:17) It used to be 37, though, so see, here we go. Here we go. Cheers. ⁓ Mm. Marc Winter (31:37) And she's like, cool, bring up your thing. Let's compare our scores today, right? And then, yeah. And I was like, okay. And then I did it. And then, you know, I showed mine. She of course crushed it. You know, I'm just like, well, you know, actually I'm on my period right now. This is a little weird. So, you know, it's like real like we're like oversharing. But, but I mean, it's just so casual. Like, like how I think people are fascinated by how we're, or it's, it's become a type of social currency as you talked about. Paul Fattinger (31:40) Billy. Marc Winter (32:07) ⁓ even in the business context. Paul Fattinger (32:07) It has, right? And that's where it gets a bit creepy, right? If you measure everything and actually I had thought about, you know, just to have the thought of taking it off because you have, you're going to have a tough weekend and you don't want to see what your score is. That's a bit, that's off, isn't it? It's like, it's like, that's weird. That's what I thought. said, I'm not going to wear this now on this weekend because my score is going to be shit. That's just fucking stupid actually. Marc Winter (32:25) That's a little weird. Okay, let's close this one. Lowest score you ever got. Paul Fattinger (32:36) At 1 %! Marc Winter (32:38) You gotta laugh for a sec. Paul Fattinger (32:39) I got many 1 %ers actually, in fact. It's like, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Like, no, I mean, the 1 % club, was there, I was there a lot. Yeah, Mm-hmm. Marc Winter (32:42) Really? So you basically got, really? Oh really? Oh my god, that is very funny. So basically you're basically 1 % sure of dead. Paul Fattinger (32:57) Exactly, no. But I mean, they were all very deserved. also have to say, like, I really worked hard for them. really worked hard for them. It's like not sleeping for a whole night and basically only the sleep I got was on the plane from Lisbon to Vienna and partying before that. that was kind of like, those are my, yeah, my kind of like best ones. Marc Winter (33:03) Yeah, you worked hard for that 1%. Yeah, exactly. You're a 1 %er. think mine was like 32, so now I feel much better. Paul Fattinger (33:26) 32 like 32 is a good morning man for me. It's like 32. I'm like, yeah. Yeah Like I had 66 this morning. I want to see where I can see all of this Yeah, but I'm sure it shows me somewhere. I have 1163 recoveries by the way, so that's a long Wow, and I've been wearing it for 890 days straight now, which is also crazy So I can tell you my best sleep Marc Winter (33:30) my what my god Okay, wow. Wow. Paul Fattinger (33:55) It was 100 % of all time. My peak recovery was 98%. My maximum strain was 20.5, which is a lot because 21 is the highest in our logarithmic score. My lowest recovery was 1%. My longest sleep, 10 hours and 45 minutes. So my lowest air HRV, I was basically dead, dude. It's like, yeah, that's kind of, yeah, that's it. Marc Winter (34:02) Okay. And ladies... Ladies and gentlemen, this is why we call him the Terminator. You know, he goes down from one to breaks the scores of the other audience. It's insane. Paul Fattinger (34:29) Here we go. Member since July 22. Thank you Hansi for that. yeah, no, but I love it. I'm kind of, makes me think as what you said before, as a closing thing is as we add measurements to this and what we haven't talked about is like there are companies in the U S and I mean, I love you guys, but you're not really hot on data and privacy, right? That Marc Winter (34:56) No, no, no, Paul Fattinger (34:57) mean, who knows a lot about me. So that's kind of creepy to be very, I don't, I choose very actively not to think about this because I think if you did, you'd have to throw it away. Marc Winter (35:01) Yeah. Yeah. I mean for spyware if I wanted to create a profile like they don't know but that's you would be the first person I would like I would choose that over your social media account right like I mean it's we tell yeah yeah yeah yeah yes yeah yeah yeah and yeah cuz no I was also thinking imagine what they what they're choosing not to show you so there's a there's everything that you that's that there's your report etc Paul Fattinger (35:12) But for not only for spyware, mean, they know. They know everything. They know when you do everything. ⁓ Marc Winter (35:40) And then there is, you know. Paul Fattinger (35:41) And then there's maybe also some things are not right. mean, right there is also lots of people that talk about it, that the accuracy is not great and blah, blah. I have to be honest, I've had moments where I wore a whoop on my right, my Garmin on my left and the Garmin wrist thingy. And I measured it in three devices to understand which one is, you know, what's the deviation. Okay. Marc Winter (36:03) Okay, that is the best way to close. crazy. Paul Fattinger (36:08) I mean, I know how to obsess over shit and I have done it with this. I am now in a healthy relationship with my whoop band. That's how I would like to close it. I hope at least. Marc Winter (36:23) Yeah, all right. Well, I wish I could invest publicly into them after this episode because I think with this kind of endorsement in our growing listener base, you know, that's an insider tip if there's not one. Paul Fattinger (36:37) They're gonna sponsor us after this and that's actually guys. Sorry, we absolutely abused this. This was a pure sponsorship fishing exercise. It's like, yeah, I'm not, but I'm gonna use it for it anyways. Anyways, listen, talking about sponsorships, we're also sponsored by Arnold Schwarzenegger because he's so happy that we're talking about Terminators every episode. So. Marc Winter (36:48) That's not true. You should use it. Exactly. Send to the CMO. Paul Fattinger (37:04) What's your Terminator or Idiot of the Week, buddy? Marc Winter (37:07) Okay, terminated first is, Thanksgiving is always, always challenged with Thanksgiving is the bird, right? The turkey. Very often it's dry, not pleasant to eat, et cetera. Paul Fattinger (37:17) Did you fucking terminate the turkey? Marc Winter (37:20) My cousin did and ⁓ you know, there's a great recipe, know, marinating your turkey in buttermilk, ⁓ smart, for two days, softens it, makes it more moist. yeah. Yeah. Salt, pepper. No, it just softens it and makes it just really kind of, yeah, of course. And well, here's the first thing you do. You spatchcock it. Spatchcock is a funny word. Paul Fattinger (37:28) ⁓ Really? Two days? But doesn't the buttermilk go bad if you put it in the fridge? You have a fridge big enough for whole turkey and buttermilk? You told me last time already. Yeah, yeah. Marc Winter (37:50) Yeah, so he removed the thing. So Mike, and then he put all kinds of butter and rosemary underneath the skin. Anyway, it was awesome. And ⁓ best turkey I've had 45 years on this planet. So it deserves a special out. Yeah, yeah. Paul Fattinger (38:02) Whoa, here we go, here we go. All right, man, that sounds awesome. Okay, so that's the Terminator. Marc Winter (38:10) Yeah, yours. Paul Fattinger (38:11) And mine is my boys weekend. all my boys, I got to say, man, that I know we did an episode and you guys haven't listened to it. Do it. I think it was like number four or five or six about boys weekends. And we had, I would say higher than 20 % share of good conversations. Like, like deep conversations, meaningful conversations. We did take the piss and it was fun. We drank and we ate amazing steaks and barbecue. It was like. Marc Winter (38:30) Nice. Paul Fattinger (38:41) It was like by the book almost. And I don't want to say because it was by the book, it was great. It was great by its own means. And we also kind of compared pictures of, of, know, the, the, shopping we did and the amount of vegetables versus 20 years ago increased, you know, immensely because 20 years ago we basically bought meat, chips and chocolate. And I was salad and zucchini and all this kind of stuff. So we have evolved. Marc Winter (39:03) ⁓ Now you've got money. There you go. Exactly. Exactly. Paul Fattinger (39:08) I don't think it's the money. I think it's the head. I think it's actually depends. You know, it's that but no, no, in total, super nice, super wholesome. was beautiful. We want to do it again soon. So those guys absolute terminators. I mean, they made a made a great weekend. Marc Winter (39:13) Yeah, the bands, exactly. Well, my idiots are just tied to the holiday, ⁓ which is, you know, we have this thing called Black Friday in the US and I still can't believe there's traffic everywhere. How many people decide to go in a car and drive to a store and fight people to get some discount on some shitty product to get online to save 10 bucks or 15 bucks? I would do that to not, I would pay triple not to be there. So, you know, it's just... Paul Fattinger (39:51) Is it so bad? Marc Winter (39:53) my god, it was crazy. I mean, it's probably good for the retail market. Maybe the US economy is in as bad as we think. yeah. That's the thing you never know. Paul Fattinger (39:59) Maybe, or maybe it is because everyone is waiting for that. You really never know. I'm going to show I wanted to show you a picture of a table full of kids' skiing clothes. I spent two and a half hours yesterday going through all the skiing stuff of my kids. And... Marc Winter (40:15) my God. That sounds Paul Fattinger (40:21) which I don't know who the Edith is now, but it was insane. It was insane amount of work. it was, my whole dinner table was like a big, basically bunch of just socks and underwear and shit. And I tried to pack it all together and I thought I might be the Edith that I want to go skiing with my kids for three days because it takes me three days to prepare in order to go on the piece for three days, which is again, the Pinnacle of Champagne problems I'm aware. ⁓ but, I'm really looking forward to it, but yesterday and, know, especially a bit hungover after boys weekend to then go and sort through socks and shit like this. was, it was, ⁓ insane, but Hey, listen. Marc Winter (40:57) I already feel your pain. I can feel your pain. Well, I look forward to get a screenshot of your whoops scores, you know, after you ski with your kids. Let's put it that way. Paul Fattinger (41:08) And they're gonna be great because I'm gonna be super relaxed. So it's all good. All right, Thank you so much. I'll talk to you soon. Cheers, ciao. Marc Winter (41:12) yeah, buddy, take care.